Castle Lager Rugby Championship 2014

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OGroteKoning

OGroteKoning

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Arthur said:
Agreed.

But fixing coach isn't enough, I suspect.
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It is the best possible place to start! HM has the vision of a fruitbat. We won't go anywhere serious with him. Even P-Divvy would have had the same successes
 
A

Arthur

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Wotabolsup things are. Ah well. At least we'll probably scrape in with a win against the Argies.
 
ponder

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Arthur said:
The intensity down to the last minute is impressive. Scary. Dunno if our guys have got that fitness and passion.
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Arthur said:
I suspect the root of our problem is that the players don't have confidence in the management. We're forever having to look over the shoulder at the political agendas that interfere. That kills one's ability to sustain passion and intensity. And we can't change it.
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Mephisto_Helix said:
if SA play like we did last Saturday and NZ play like they did today when we meet, it is going to be an embarrassment

...... so ye, best stock up on the booze now already
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Don't worry, according to anthony900220 we will beat them :D
http://mybroadband.co.za/vb/showthr...nship-2014?p=13314080&viewfull=1#post13314080
 
sand_man

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OGroteKoning said:
FD is new to rugby :D
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Clearly!!

fanie.dry said:
So you think we should change the whole team, since none of them have skills?
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All that gets us through these days is our dogged determination, passion, unfledging and unwavering approach to the physical stuff. Our skill levels are no where near what they should be for a top 5 rugby playing nation but the brutality with which we play gets us over the line more often than not.

When was the last time you saw the Bok team carry the ball for 10 phases or more, 5 times or more in a match? Hell, we battle to go through 5 phases or more, 5 times in a match!!

Watch carefully tonight and tell me I'm making this up.

No point changing the whole team. The lack of skills at all levels is alarming!

It seems to be symptomatic of how we coach at school boy level. We have skillful players like Juan Du Jong, Aplon, Schalk Britz, Kolbie but what these players have in common is they diminutive in stature. To survive at the highest levels they've had to adapt their playing style. They've learnt to beat opponents with sidesteps, running angles, change of pace etc etc etc

Your average Saffa, though, is a physical specimen that uses brute force, size, speed and power to beat his opponent. Fine at school and club level but not so effective the further up the leagues you progress.
 
sand_man

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Watching U21's Bulls vs Leopards, don't think either team has taken play to the 5th phase as yet, halftime...
 
sand_man

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ImageUploadedByTapatalk1408794373.698873.jpg

My bad, the Leopards have taken it through 5 phases twice. They've also managed to swing the ball to the wings twice!! And that more or less sums up what is wrong with SA rugby.

Can't blame the rain either. Pearler of a day in PTA today.
 
faniebraai

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sand_man said:
All that gets us through these days is our dogged determination, passion, unfledging and unwavering approach to the physical stuff. Our skill levels are no where near what they should be for a top 5 rugby playing nation but the brutality with which we play gets us over the line more often than not.
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I think you are confusing "physical stuff" with passion and determination. Passion is not giving the ball to the biggest oke on the field and shoving him into a wall of defense. Did you watch the game this morning. Did you see how the all blacks never stopped playing. Someone makes a tackle and ball gets knocked loose, the same guy stands up and run towards the ball. A aussie pick the ball up but he is there again, the same guy. Aussie passes balls to another aussie, sam freakin guy never stopped playing and literally crawls towards the third guy to affect a tackle. That is passion.

sand_man said:
When was the last time you saw the Bok team carry the ball for 10 phases or more, 5 times or more in a match? Hell, we battle to go through 5 phases or more, 5 times in a match!!

Watch carefully tonight and tell me I'm making this up.
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So here I do agree with you completely. Our ball retention is shocking. We can't clean out rucks properly and get counter rucked way to often. Look at the ABs this morning, look at what a phase is to them, and what our phase entails. They get the ball to the wing and only takes the tackle when there is no other option. Our phase play? Scumhalf -> big oke -> tackle -> phase complete. WTF is the use of that? What have you gained? Nothing. You haven't touched the defense line yet. With the all blacks because the ball is moving from one side to the other, the defensive line is broken as each players covers his opponent. With us, they can have a smoke and cup of coffee at the ends of the defensive line, because our ball never reach them. Big forwards can be used closer to the line when you just need to gain another 2/3 meters to score a try. What does it help in your own 22? Fsckall. That's what. And what if he breaks the line? O schit, then there is no support, because breaking the line wasn't part of the plan. Typical blue bull HM crash ball kark.

sand_man said:
No point changing the whole team. The lack of skills at all levels is alarming!
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Skills is not the problem. It's the game plan that is not working and which is retarded.

sand_man said:
It seems to be symptomatic of how we coach at school boy level. We have skillful players like Juan Du Jong, Aplon, Schalk Britz, Kolbie but what these players have in common is they diminutive in stature. To survive at the highest levels they've had to adapt their playing style. They've learnt to beat opponents with sidesteps, running angles, change of pace etc etc etc
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Have you watched some of the school boy rugby they broadcast on TV? A lot better than the schit we are seeing week in and week out at the 'highest level' of rugby. The school boys run, they swing the ball, they have support runners, but at the same time they can do the crash ball when need be, they can drive, maul, and play the ugly stuff as well. Our springboks only do the ugly stuff well, and that's not enough to compete with a team like the ABs.

sand_man said:
Your average Saffa, though, is a physical specimen that uses brute force, size, speed and power to beat his opponent. Fine at school and club level but not so effective the further up the leagues you progress.
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Yep, physical specimens indeed, but used incorrectly. Our players look lazy against what I've seen this morning. As if they have a 'ja ja' attitude.
 
sand_man

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fanie.dry said:
I think you are confusing "physical stuff" with passion and determination. Passion is not giving the ball to the biggest oke on the field and shoving him into a wall of defense.
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Nah, come on dude?!! Saffas, from spectators to players, are the most passionate rugby players and supporters in the world (maybe 2nd to the AB/NZ).

You right, passion is not giving the ball to the biggest oke on the field but passion is when you do it every match for a 100 tests and he comes out of retirement so that you can do it some more!!


Skills is not the problem. It's the game plan that is not working and which is retarded.
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I disagree. The lack of skillful players limits Meyer's game plan. He really only has the players to score tries from 1st phase possession. He has a pack that he hopes will dominate up front and in the set pieces and back play will revolve around a 9/10 kicking for position with the most penetrative attacks coming from 15.

Can't say I agree with his team selection either. Bok team is looking very ordinary at the mo if we being honest with ourselves. Jean and Eben returning from fairly long injury layoffs, Pollard is very green and IMHO very overrated. Boshoff and Johan Goosen are far better 10's IMHO. Morne Steyn is horribly out of form so not too many options for Meyer in the all important play maker role. Ruan not convincing at 9 and de Allende starting out of position at 13!! Back line is suspect. Only Willie le Roux has the skills and flair required at this level and if he doesn't fire we look decidedly ordinary!

Have you watched some of the school boy rugby they broadcast on TV? A lot better than the schit we are seeing week in and week out at the 'highest level' of rugby. The school boys run, they swing the ball, they have support runners, but at the same time they can do the crash ball when need be, they can drive, maul, and play the ugly stuff as well. Our springboks only do the ugly stuff well, and that's not enough to compete with a team like the ABs.
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True... So when does the flair get coached out of them? As soon as they start getting paid to win?

Anyway... Can't see us losing to Argentina but it's more 'how we win' that will be crucial. Right now this comp is looking like a 2 horse race with SA and Arg merely making up the numbers which would be very sad...
 
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Even though I understand all the points raised, I am certainly more optimistic than you guys. HM have always been a conservative type of coach and will always be. The boks will never be a Nick Mallet type of team as long as he is coach. Still I think we are going to achieve more with this group than you give them credit for.
Yes, there are players I don't agree with either, but then there always is.
"On the other hand" playing the way aus play, will not suit them either
 
OGroteKoning

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InusB said:
Even though I understand all the points raised, I am certainly more optimistic than you guys. HM have always been a conservative type of coach and will always be. The boks will never be a Nick Mallet type of team as long as he is coach. Still I think we are going to achieve more with this group than you give them credit for.
Yes, there are players I don't agree with either, but then there always is.
"On the other hand" playing the way aus play, will not suit them either
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Pardon my ignorance, but are you a Bulls supporter?
 
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