• You are not registered on MyBroadband, which means you miss out on great benefits. To join our community is very easy, and completely free. Register now.
  • Win an Amazon Echo Dot in this two-day giveaway - Enter Here

Catalans vote to split from Spain amid violent police crackdown

DanDango

Executive Member
Joined
Sep 4, 2013
Messages
6,485
#1
Catalans vote to split from Spain amid violent police crackdown
http://edition.cnn.com/2017/10/01/europe/catalonia-spain-independence-referendum-result/index.html

Barcelona (CNN)Spain is facing a political crisis after Catalans voted for independence in a contested referendum that descended into violence when police cracked down on polling booths, injuring hundreds.
The Catalan government said late Sunday it had earned the right to independence from Spain after preliminary results showed 90% of respondents were in favor of a split, though turnout was relatively low.

Spain's Prime Minister Mariano Rajoy said that the vote was illegitimate.
"At this point, I can tell you very clearly: Today a self-determination referendum in Catalonia didn't happen," he said in a televised speech.
Some 844 people were injured as riot police raided polling stations, dragged away voters and fired rubber bullets during clashes Sunday -- scenes that reverberated across Europe.
The Catalan government blamed Madrid for the police heavy-handedness and called on the European Union to respond.
"I want to make clear that all responsibility, all violence acts, repression is exclusively on the government of Rajoy, " the region's Minister of Foreign Affairs Raül Romeva said.
"Today Europe has to choose, shame or dignity. Violence or democracy, this is our demand. With this demand, we begin to work for a response to these circumstances. The absence of a response would suppose a lack and loss of credibility to the EU and its institutions."


Catalonia's separatist government pushed forward with the vote despite opposition from Madrid and a ruling from the country's top court declaring it illegal.
Catalan nationalists argue the region is a separate nation with its own history, culture and language, and that it should have increased fiscal independence.


Catalan govt: 'Democracy won'
Catalan's government said that despite the attempts at voter suppression, "today democracy won."
"It has been a long day, a day of emotions, a hard day, of material damages and personal injuries," government spokesperson Jordi Turull said
Of 2.2 million ballots counted so far, about 90% were in favor of independence, Turull said in a news conference shortly after midnight. Some 15,000 votes are still pending, Turull said.
Turnout in Catalonia, which has 5.3 million total eligible voters, would have been higher if not for suppression at the polls by Spanish national police, Turull said. Up to 770,000 votes were lost as a result of the polling station crackdowns, the Catalan government estimated Monday.
 

OrbitalDawn

Ulysses Everett McGill
Joined
Aug 26, 2011
Messages
39,509
#8
Catalans were against independence before this, AFAIK. Pretty solid way to ensure the opposite view will gain traction. Good job, Rajoy.
 

f2wohf

Honorary Master
Joined
Apr 15, 2014
Messages
14,698
#12
If Catalan becomes independent, should they be part of the EU?

See what I did there?
Probably not because all the countries with independence movements (UK, France, Spain, Italy, Belgium and probably a few others) will reject the entrance in the EU fearing in order for an indépendant Catalunya to fail.
 

rietrot

Executive Member
Joined
Aug 26, 2016
Messages
8,772
#13
Great and very worrying development at the same time.

I'm all for smaller independent regions. Big government only leads to big corruption and the only way to combat this and ensure proper democracy is to have power at a local level were politicians can be held accountable to the true will of the people.
Its worrying to see the use of violence to retain power in this day and age in developed countries. I'm certain if they cesede the EU will make an example out of them so they would have little chance of success.
How much more do we need to be worried our democracy will fall apart.
 

f2wohf

Honorary Master
Joined
Apr 15, 2014
Messages
14,698
#14
90% of 2.26 million voters (while there are 5.3 millions) voted yes.

712 of the 948 municipalities participated in the vote, the voters of the other 236 being excluded from voting.

Doesn’t sound that democratic. The result is way under 50%...
 

rietrot

Executive Member
Joined
Aug 26, 2016
Messages
8,772
#15
90% of 2.26 million voters (while there are 5.3 millions) voted yes.

712 of the 948 municipalities participated in the vote, the voters of the other 236 being excluded from voting.

Doesn’t sound that democratic. The result is way under 50%...
Stats 101. Abstaining or not voting out of fear of being beaten by the police isn't a "no" vote.
Abstaining actually means you don't care about the outcome.
If you have a big enough sample size(a few million people will do fine) you can accurately determine "The will of the people" as forcing everyone to vote will likely follow the same trend.
 

f2wohf

Honorary Master
Joined
Apr 15, 2014
Messages
14,698
#16
Stats 101. Abstaining or not voting out of fear of being beaten by the police isn't a "no" vote.
Abstaining actually means you don't care about the outcome.
If you have a big enough sample size(a few million people will do fine) you can accurately determine "The will of the people" as forcing everyone to vote will likely follow the same trend.
In that case it is, since the no voters did not go to vote because they challenge the legitimacy and legality of the vote.
 

battletoad

Expert Member
Joined
Mar 10, 2009
Messages
1,383
#17
I was in Barcelona last week. The atmosphere was energetic and lively, with students proudly roaming the streets with Catalonia flags. It felt similar to our post-1994 era.

I did a tour of the Catalan region, stretching up to Andorra into southern France, and had a chat with some of the locals. Generally speaking, the older population are opposed to the split (pensions and such maybe involved here), whereas the youth prefer the split. The main reasons for the split are that Barcelona's exports and GDP contribute for 25% and 20% to Spain respectively; however, their funding from central government hovers between 10%-15% of total expenditure. A previous referendum put the "No" camp in the lead at 44%.

Funny thing is, Spain has various autonomous regions: Catalunya, Basque Region and Galicia are probably the main ones. So Catalunya leaving would potentially start a domino effect with other regions following suit shortly thereafter, massively destabilising Spain.

I was at Plaza del Sol in Madrid yesterday after the crackdown. Heavy police presence to separate Spanish and Catalan supporters. Although the tension was palpable, I was amazed at how peaceful the opposing sides were; the South African in me expected clashes, teargas and rubber bullets.

All in all, its not a clear cut right vs wrong choice here; Catalunya politicians have disregarded constitutional rulings on separation procedure. But I do wish the Spanish all the best, irrespective if they are Catalans, Galicians or true Spanish (supposing there is such a group).
 

f2wohf

Honorary Master
Joined
Apr 15, 2014
Messages
14,698
#18
All in all, its not a clear cut right vs wrong choice here; Catalunya politicians have disregarded constitutional rulings on separation procedure. But I do wish the Spanish all the best, irrespective if they are Catalans, Galicians or true Spanish (supposing there is such a group).
Regarding this, I just read that 20 of the 34 rules of the electoral code were violated, which is an impressive failure by the Catalan government.
 

battletoad

Expert Member
Joined
Mar 10, 2009
Messages
1,383
#19
Regarding this, I just read that 20 of the 34 rules of the electoral code were violated, which is an impressive failure by the Catalan government.
Yep. The feeling i get on the ground from the people in Madrid is that, although they can respect self determination for Catalans, they're disappointed with the manner in which its panning out. Like they're being stabbed in the back, so to say.

Difficult times both sides.
 

access

Executive Member
Joined
Mar 17, 2009
Messages
6,765
#20
have just been watching vids of this, absolute madness. police breaking a womans hands on camera, wtf.

so about 43% of people voted, of which 90% of them voted for independence.

imagine the outrage if they then decided to join up with russia. :crylaugh:
 
Top