Catalans vote to split from Spain amid violent police crackdown

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Having early elections would actually be a good way to have a real legal referendum. They should make it all about leaving if they win. Now the people have seen what the eventual outcome will be and how they will be bullied by Spain and the EU and since this was Spains idea they would find it harder to challenge the outcome. Call Spains bluff.

Nah they've already done this in 2015: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catalan_regional_election,_2015#Secessionist_process

That election was already a vote for secession, it is ultimately the reason there even was (yet another) referendum this year. The time for elections and referendums is over imo, it has been done to death. The Catalan parliament should grow a pair and execute the mandate they believe they have been given.

Similarly Spain should grow a pair and either accept Catalonia's actions or suppress the shyte out of it and show their true colours. Nobody is stupid enough to believe dialog or demands will achieve anything at all.

 

[rietrot]

Nah they've already done this in 2015: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catalan_regional_election,_2015#Secessionist_process

That election was already a vote for secession, it is ultimately the reason there even was (yet another) referendum this year. The time for elections and referendums is over imo, it has been done to death. The Catalan parliament should grow a pair and execute the mandate they believe they have been given.

Similarly Spain should grow a pair and either accept Catalonia's actions or suppress the shyte out of it and show their true colours. Nobody is stupid enough to believe dialog or demands will achieve anything at all.

Ideally yes. But they're still trying very hard to negotiate and find a non violent solution and are probably stupid enough to think that they will still be allowed to be in the EU and leave Spain.
I'm not suggesting another referendum. I'm suggesting one legitimate election that Spain can't dispute as illegal and them immediately declaring independence if they win. Spain will most likely still say they can't declare independence and take a hard line stance, but then they won't be able to threaten them with article115 because legitimate, legal elections just happened.
It would be something like Syrias moment where John Kerry said they should give up their chemical weapons and Assad said okay.

 

[rietrot]

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-...catalan-separatists-urge-supporters-pull-cash

As tensions escalate in Spain, Catalan Separatists are potentially about to do some real damage and hit Madrid where it really hurts.

In a tweeted message to their 270,000 followers, Assemblea Nacional urged supporters to pull cash from CaixaBank and Banco Sabadell branches between 8 am and 9am Friday to protest at their decision to shift their legal domiciles out of the region.

This certainly has potential to get interesting.

 

[f2wohf]

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-...catalan-separatists-urge-supporters-pull-cash



This certainly has potential to get interesting.

You haven’t really followed did you ?

4 billions euros a day have been leaving Catalan banks since October 1st.

The action between 8 and 9 is to protest against the arrest of Sanchez and Cuixart.

Apparently, it’s quite a major failure from what I see in the newspapers.

 

[rietrot]

You haven’t really followed did you ?

4 billions euros a day have been leaving Catalan banks since October 1st.

The action between 8 and 9 is to protest against the arrest of Sanchez and Cuixart.

Apparently, it’s quite a major failure from what I see in the newspapers.

Lol obviously the newspapers that you read will point to it as a failure. They are clearly biased for Spain.

If I were in catalonia I would have taken my money out of the bank long ago and have it cash in Euros, gold or even bit coins. Doesn't matter if the bank's HO is in Catalonia or Spain/Madrid.

I don't expect anything to happen today specifically.

 

[f2wohf]

Lol obviously the newspapers that you read will point to it as a failure. They are clearly biased for Spain.

If I were in catalonia I would have taken my money out of the bank long ago and have it cash in Euros, gold or even bit coins. Doesn't matter if the bank's HO is in Catalonia or Spain/Madrid.

I don't expect anything to happen today specifically.

Bad luck for you, I always read one pro and one con media. In this case Vanguardia and TV3.

Even in the pro one, you see 5 people in a branch in a very busy area of Barcelona and 2 people at an ATM. Hardly a bankrun...

 

[rietrot]

Bad luck for you, I always read one pro and one con media. In this case Vanguardia and TV3.

Even in the pro one, you see 5 people in a branch in a very busy area of Barcelona and 2 people at an ATM. Hardly a bankrun...

By your own account. 4 billion are leaving the banks a day. Queues are so last century.
I prefer cash, but most people don't.

 

[f2wohf]

By your own account. 4 billion are leaving the banks a day. Queues are so last century.
I prefer cash, but most people don't.

Over 150 companies are leaving Catalonia every day, the 4 billions are most likely at 90% their treasury.

The planned bankrun was for people to go in branches and withdraw massively between 8 and 9 today as a form of protest against ANC and Omnium’s leaders arrest. This clearly did not happen.

 

[Swa]

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-...catalan-separatists-urge-supporters-pull-cash



This certainly has potential to get interesting.

Yup both sides have ammunition.

 

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Source: Catalan Leaders to be Ousted as Rajoy Aims at Separatists

Prime Minister Mariano Rajoy invoked the most far-reaching powers in the Spanish Constitution as he aimed to strike a decisive blow against the Catalan separatist campaign that has divided the nation and put its economic expansion at risk.

Spain will dismiss Catalan President Carles Puigdemont and the rest of his regional government as part of a barrage of actions under Article 155 of the Constitution, Rajoy said at a press conference in Madrid Saturday. The decision has to be ratified by a vote in the Senate, potentially within a week.

 

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Source: Catalan parliament: Spanish government measures are a ‘coup’

Forcadell harshly criticized Spanish Prime Minister Mariano Rajoy’s decision to invoke Article 155 of the Spanish Constitution, which allows Madrid to intervene and impose direct rule on any of Spain’s seventeen autonomous regions in case they are judged to have violated the law.

She said that the prime minister’s actions amount to a “de facto coup d’état” and strike “a blow to democracy.”

"Prime Minister Rajoy wants the parliament of Catalonia to stop being a democratic parliament, and we will not allow this to happen," Carme Forcadell said in a televised speech, as cited by Reuters.

 

[f2wohf]

Source: Catalan parliament: Spanish government measures are a ‘coup’

Actually all political parties have supported it.

Puigdemont has put himself in a corner and hasn’t been very smart to refuse any dialogue whatsoever and even refusing to answer questions.

 

[NarrowBandFtw]

Actually all political parties have supported it

Yes, the Spanish government, which consists of parties ...

Puigdemont has put himself in a corner and hasn’t been very smart to refuse any dialogue whatsoever and even refusing to answer questions.

What dialog and what questions? Like him or not he was given ultimatums under threat, there was no dialog offered and the threats were put in question format, you can't seriously believe those were real "questions" :wtf:

 

[NarrowBandFtw]

Source: Catalonia independence: Puigdemont 'will not accept' Rajoy plan

Catalan President Carles Puigdemont says Catalonia will not accept Madrid's plan to curb the region's autonomy.

In a statement, he described the imposition of direct rule as the worst attack on Catalonia's institutions since the Franco dictatorship.

 

[f2wohf]

Yes, the Spanish government, which consists of parties ...


What dialog and what questions? Like him or not he was given ultimatums under threat, there was no dialog offered

And the two major opposition parties which are opposition, not government. It’s the first time that I see the right, the socialists, the center, the extreme right the extreme left all agree on something without any tension.

There was a question asked in writing: was the independence declared ? It was a premise to all
dialogue. Puigdemont decided to play stupid and not answer this question at all in his letter.

 

[Swa]

Source: Catalan Leaders to be Ousted as Rajoy Aims at Separatists

Source: Catalan parliament: Spanish government measures are a ‘coup’

Time for Catalonia to act and declare independence.

And the two major opposition parties which are opposition, not government. It’s the first time that I see the right, the socialists, the center, the extreme right the extreme left all agree on something without any tension.

There was a question asked in writing: was the independence declared ? It was a premise to all
dialogue. Puigdemont decided to play stupid and not answer this question at all in his letter.

It was Spain playing hardball. Declare independence and they take action or don't declare independence and they can let the status quo remain. Spain was never serious about any dialogue.

 

[rietrot]

Now they have to declare independence and defend that independence or sit down and shut up. Interesting times.

 

[f2wohf]

Now they have to declare independence and defend that independence or sit down and shut up. Interesting times.

Defending it is going to be fun since event the local police is taken over by the national government.

They basically have:
- no international support
- no armed forces
- no police
- no communication channels (all Òmnium and ANC communication channels have been blocked)
- no media since TV3 has been raided (the local TV financed by public funds illegally pro independence when it should be impartial)
- no money (access to the accounts is blocked too)
- no tax collection mechanism since it has been taken over
- no leader (Sánchez and Puixart are in jail and Puigdemont is just their puppet)

Local elections will be held in less than 6 months.

 

[Swa]

Defending it is going to be fun since event the local police is taken over by the national government.

They basically have:
- no international support
- no armed forces
- no police
- no communication channels (all Òmnium and ANC communication channels have been blocked)
- no media since TV3 has been raided (the local TV financed by public funds illegally pro independence when it should be impartial)
- no money (access to the accounts is blocked too)
- no tax collection mechanism since it has been taken over
- no leader (Sánchez and Puixart are in jail and Puigdemont is just their puppet)

Local elections will be held in less than 6 months.

You don't think EVERY Catalonian will now stand up against Spain's dictatorial policy? Somehow in times like this a police force doesn't really matter and they start running for the hills. Catalonia can easily establish its own independent police force.

 

[f2wohf]

You don't think EVERY Catalonian will now stand up against Spain's dictatorial policy? Somehow in times like this a police force doesn't really matter and they start running for the hills. Catalonia can easily establish its own independent police force.

EVERY no. Actually there’s been little protesting activity this week end. Catalans (even separatists) know it’s over. A lot of separatist leaders (including the ex head of the Catalan Parliament who has organized this referendum) have said that the conditions are not fulfilled for an independence right now.

Dictatorial ? Article 155 is an article of the constitution they approved at more than 90%. Catalonia was actually the second province (after Andalucía) with the highest rate of approval of the constitution...

They had their own police force (the Mossos) whose head is in provisional liberty and indicted for secession. This police force has sworn allegiance to the crown and has been taken over by the national police.