Catalans vote to split from Spain amid violent police crackdown

[ShaunSA]

Please read the full story before https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catalan_independence

You can’t exactly say that the Spanish government has let down the Catalan aspirations with the statute of autonomy.

You didn't answer my question. Should they only call a vote if the result is in their favor?

"Opinion polls conducted before the vote suggest a minority of around 40 percent of residents in Catalonia back independence"

Opinion polls also had Hilary winning the US election

 

[NarrowBandFtw]

"Opinion polls conducted before the vote suggest a minority of around 40 percent of residents in Catalonia back independence"

"Some opinion polls" would be more accurate, the majority hinted at a yes vote, ironically without exception they all indicated that the people want to have the referendum. Guess which result was helped by the police crackdown to prevent the vote that everyone wanted ...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catalan_independence_referendum,_2017#Opinion_polls

 

[f2wohf]

You didn't answer my question. Should they only call a vote if the result is in their favor?



Opinion polls also had Hilary winning the US election

Where did I say they should ? I just said they did.

Again I don’t have a side on this, if they become a nation, good for them, if they don’t good for the Spaniards.

It’s not my fight and I don’t have any interest either way.

My point is only that this referendum is a joke, and that it’s not as one sided with the bad and mean Spanish oppressive state on one side and the nice poor freedom fighters on the other.

 

[Polymathic]

I personally support the Catalans bid for independence from Spain. If Spain breaks up into various regions maybe that's a good thing, maybe a few more regions in the world need their independence also, the Flemish in Belgium, The Kurds in the middle east, the Tibetans in China even the Uighurs in China.

 

[scudsucker]

I personally support the Catalans bid for independence from Spain. If Spain breaks up into various regions maybe that's a good thing, maybe a few more regions in the world need their independence also, the Flemish in Belgium, The Kurds in the middle east, the Tibetans in China even the Uighurs in China.

Ja, balkanisation has always worked out so well before.

 

[NarrowBandFtw]

Ja, balkanisation has always worked out so well before.

and forced unification is the answer, long live the USSR!

 

[Polymathic]

Ja, balkanisation has always worked out so well before.

Well Balkans have been relatively peaceful now they are Balkanised

 

[C4Cat]

and forced unification is the answer, long live the USSR!

Rather forced unification than constant European wars

 

[NarrowBandFtw]

Rather forced unification than constant European wars

Actual proof that European wars were caused by / will magically return with more independent states?

Didn't we recently have this correlation != causation chat?

 

[C4Cat]

Actual proof that European wars were caused by / will magically return with more independent states?

Didn't we recently have this correlation != causation chat?

Not with me, no.
History is evidence - Europe had ongoing internal wars continuously for centuries up until the establishment of the EU in it's initial forms.
Seems pretty obvious it will revert back if nationalism grows and the EU collapses. Do you think Spain and Catalonia would be happy neighbours? Unlikely. The whole point of creating a unified Europe was to put an end to the internal fighting that had plagued Europe since forever, pretty much
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_conflicts_in_Europe

 

[NarrowBandFtw]

Europe had ongoing internal wars continuously for centuries up until the establishment of the EU in it's initial forms

Correlation, yes.

 

[Alan]

History is evidence - Europe had ongoing internal wars continuously for centuries up until the establishment of the EU in it's initial forms.
]

Nothing to do with the advent of nuclear weapons and most of western Europe outsourcing responsibility for their defense to the U.S....

 

[C4Cat]

Nothing to do with the advent of nuclear weapons and most of western Europe outsourcing responsibility for their defense to the U.S....

War seems to be continuing just fine outside of the EU - and the US isn't going defend Europe from itself. Just like WW1 and WW2 (remember those), if Europe goes back to fighting amongst themselves the US would be forced to choose sides.

 

[Icemanbrfc]

Would you say the same if it was the Western Cape?

Free us

 

[Icemanbrfc]

Kick Barcelona out of La Liga

why? You scared

 

[f2wohf]

In today’s news:

- Mas (ex president of the Catalan government and nationalist) declares that Catalans are not ready and prepared for secession.

- After Caixa, Sabadell, Freixenet, Renta Corporacion, Dogi, now Gas Natural moves its headquarter out of Barcelona.

- IMF warns about the Catalan economy.

- A judge investigates the police and mossos activities during the referendum.

- The mayor of Barcelona asks the EU to mediate in order to avoid the entire Catalan administration to be dissolved.

 

[f2wohf]

Planets Group (first Spanish publisher worldwide) is also leaving Barcelona.

Agbar as well (water).

Well done Puigdemont, you’ve managed to make all the headquarters (and the taxes) get away from your province !

 

[schumi]

Thousands protest against Catalan independence in Barcelona

Barcelona - Tens of thousands of people took to the streets of Catalonia's capital Barcelona on Sunday to express their opposition to any declaration of independence from Spain, showing how divided the region is on the issue.

The protesters rallied in central Barcelona, waving Spanish and Catalan flags and banners saying "Catalonia is Spain" and "Together we are stronger", as politicians on both sides hardened their positions in the country's worst political crisis for decades.

Spanish Prime Minister Mariano Rajoy said on Saturday he would not rule out removing Catalonia's government and calling a fresh local election if it claimed independence, as well as suspending the region's existing autonomous status.

The stark warning came days before Catalan leader Carles Puigdemont is expected to address the region's parliament, on Tuesday, when he could unilaterally declare independence.

More at : https://www.iol.co.za/news/world/th...st-catalan-independence-in-barcelona-11518922

 

[Techne]

In today’s news:

- Mas (ex president of the Catalan government and nationalist) declares that Catalans are not ready and prepared for secession.

- After Caixa, Sabadell, Freixenet, Renta Corporacion, Dogi, now Gas Natural moves its headquarter out of Barcelona.

- IMF warns about the Catalan economy.

- A judge investigates the police and mossos activities during the referendum.

- The mayor of Barcelona asks the EU to mediate in order to avoid the entire Catalan administration to be dissolved.

Ah, financial warfare. Shots fired. Who are the owners of these companies?
Catalonians should remember who these evil people are and what they did.

 

[f2wohf]

Ah, financial warfare. Shots fired. Who are the owners of these companies?
Catalonians should remember who these evil people are and what they did.

Why evil people ? The shareholders are free to elect where they want their companies to be based... As much as the Catalans are allowed to be independent...

Caixa is a non profit bank owned by a public interest foundation (whose headquarter is also moving).

Sabadell is controlled by individual shareholders and no controlling or major shareholder can be identified. A Colombian billionaire owns 2%.

Freixenet is owned fully by the Catalan founding family.

Gas Natural has Caixa, Repsol and an American fund as major shareholders.

Dogi belongs to an American fund.

Renta Corporacion’s major shareholder is its founding family, who is Catalan.

Aguas de Barcelona, Arquia Banca, Proclinic, Mediolanum, Oryzon, Service Point, Codorniu, Catalan Occidente, Naturhouse decided to move too.

Abertis’ (who manages the N1 and N14 in SA) board will decide tomorrow, Cellnex this week.

Only one of the seven Catalan companies listed in the Ibex35 remain in Barcelona. In a week time, they won’t have one major headquarter left at this pace.