R13...

Honorary Master
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Aug 4, 2008
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Do they honestly expect people to buy the CD and then also go and buy an mp3 version of the same music for their phones and computers?
 

Jan

Who's the Boss?
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If you own the CD's then it shouldn't be a problem at all to convert them to MP3..

Realistically, no... But under South African law you can technically be sued by rights holders that claim their standard "All rights reserved" on the disc.
 

Creag

The Boar's Rock
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May 19, 2009
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Been ripping my CD's to mp3 for years. It seems laughable that I should not be allowed to rip my music to a more versatile format.
 

grok

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“Why do people blatantly disregard copyright law, and what would need to be done to make it so that people complied?”

Stupid, outdated laws that makes no real world sense .. and they wonder why we don't comply?
Ridiculous anti-piracy warnings and scare campaigns .. and they wonder why we don't comply?
Owning physical media vs. only 'renting' digital copies .. and they wonder why we don't comply?
Digital versions costing way more than it should .. and they wonder why we don't comply?
Regional restrictions on movie releases .. and they wonder why we don't comply?
Unavailability of cheap & legal media sources .. and they wonder why we don't comply?
Scumbag tactics by the anti-piracy brigade .. and they wonder why we don't comply?

History has shown whenever a law is fundamentally unjust people will eventually revolt against it, so stick your stupid laws telling us what we can/cannot do with media we paid for. :mad:
 

Gielie Geelmielie

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I once had a discussion with one of RiSA's guys. Apparently, you buy the disc, the physical CD, with the music on it of course, but you do not buy the music. So I asked and what if the CD gets damaged, wouldn't it have been a good idea to copy the music to my PC, so that I have a backup?
"No, you bought the CD, not the music, if the CD is lost or damaged, you have lost or damaged what you have bought, the CD, that plastic shiny thing, the music does not belong to you."
 

rwenzori

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“Why do people blatantly disregard copyright law, and what would need to be done to make it so that people complied?”

Mr. Hall is trying to make a name for himself methinks. Methinks too that he could come up with a long list of answers to his own question if he thought for a millisecond or two.
 

grok

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I once had a discussion with one of RiSA's guys. Apparently, you buy the disc, the physical CD, with the music on it of course, but you do not buy the music. So I asked and what if the CD gets damaged, wouldn't it have been a good idea to copy the music to my PC, so that I have a backup?
"No, you bought the CD, not the music, if the CD is lost or damaged, you have lost or damaged what you have bought, the CD, that plastic shiny thing, the music does not belong to you."

I get it that I can never actually 'own' the music, but I paid actual money for the privilege of having and listening to my copy of it. These guys make it sound like you're handing over your money for .. absolutely nothing, and its that kind of retarded thinking that makes me say stuff these stupid laws and do whatever the hell you want with what you paid for.

.. and they wonder why we don't comply? :wtf:
 

LazyLion

King of de Jungle
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...talking about articles that will have zero effect on my current behaviour.... ;)
 

Jan

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Mr. Hall is trying to make a name for himself methinks. Methinks too that he could come up with a long list of answers to his own question if he thought for a millisecond or two.

Mr Hall already has a bit of a name :) You can just search his name on MyBroadband and ITWeb and see that he's a fairly well-quoted lawyer.

Yes he probably does have answers to those questions, but I wasn't asking for his personal opinion, I was asking for a legal opinion.
 

rwenzori

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Mr Hall already has a bit of a name :) You can just search his name on MyBroadband and ITWeb and see that he's a fairly well-quoted lawyer.

1. I am always suspicious of young professionals who seek to subtly tout their abilities through the media. It is just self-advertisement and supposedly reputation building. Which don't always workie too well becoz of:

2. They often talk crap in their quest for exposure. Mr. Hall did last time here IIRC. As did that silly Indian lawyer woman ( can't remember her name ) about criminal copyright infringement a few weeks back.

Yes he probably does have answers to those questions, but I wasn't asking for his personal opinion, I was asking for a legal opinion.

This is hardly a legal opinion:

“Why do people blatantly disregard copyright law, and what would need to be done to make it so that people complied?”

More of a really dumb question. Which brings us back to 2 above.

Maybe you need some training in recognising legal opinion? Hint - one cannot comprehend legal crap anyway.
 

Syphonx

Expert Member
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Jun 25, 2008
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I once had a discussion with one of RiSA's guys. Apparently, you buy the disc, the physical CD, with the music on it of course, but you do not buy the music. So I asked and what if the CD gets damaged, wouldn't it have been a good idea to copy the music to my PC, so that I have a backup?
"No, you bought the CD, not the music, if the CD is lost or damaged, you have lost or damaged what you have bought, the CD, that plastic shiny thing, the music does not belong to you."
So we're not paying for the music, just the CD? So by that logic we could buy our own CD's at R1 each and put music on it. Since we're only buying the CD when we buy music it should be fine
 

Jan

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So we're not paying for the music, just the CD? So by that logic we could buy our own CD's at R1 each and put music on it. Since we're only buying the CD when we buy music it should be fine

In terms of South Africa's copyright act, the stuff on the CDs are referred to as "sound recordings".

From the articles I've done in the past the it seems that sound recordings aren't afforded a "fair dealing" exception like other copyrightable works.

RiSA's explanation is therefore overly simplistic, and demonstrates how the recording industry wants the best of both worlds and the drawbacks of neither: they want to sell you a license for something, but they want that license to behave like a physical product that can get damaged, used up, stolen, or destroyed.
 

rwenzori

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In terms of South Africa's copyright act, the stuff on the CDs are referred to as "sound recordings".

From the articles I've done in the past the it seems that sound recordings aren't afforded a "fair dealing" exception like other copyrightable works.

RiSA's explanation is therefore overly simplistic, and demonstrates how the recording industry wants the best of both worlds and the drawbacks of neither: they want to sell you a license for something, but they want that license to behave like a physical product that can get damaged, used up, stolen, or destroyed.

Good analysis. On the physical media side, those of us who have bought the same recordings on LP, cassette and CD can attest to the industry's greed.

If the RiSAs of this world really believed their own bull, they would take some poor sucker to court and get a precedent established. Sadly, they won't, for fear of the precedent going against them. So, until they grow some testicles, they should just STFU.

I have quoted ( as have others ) from our own Govt's CIPRO website:

As a general guide, copyright infringement can be said to occur where the copyrighted material of others is used for personal gain as opposed to private or personal use.

Wot are interesting.
 

Vrotappel

Bulls fan
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Feb 22, 2005
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24,263
Just download the mp3 from anywhere on the internet. That's not illegal.
 

Easter Bunny

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Feb 14, 2007
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I once had a discussion with one of RiSA's guys. Apparently, you buy the disc, the physical CD, with the music on it of course, but you do not buy the music. So I asked and what if the CD gets damaged, wouldn't it have been a good idea to copy the music to my PC, so that I have a backup?
"No, you bought the CD, not the music, if the CD is lost or damaged, you have lost or damaged what you have bought, the CD, that plastic shiny thing, the music does not belong to you."

i bought my computer, that black metal thing that goes "rrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr" until i kick it, not the music...
 

Space_Chief

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Aug 22, 2012
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12,950
If you buy your CD from the US, then you can follow their rules:
http://mp3.about.com/od/digitalmusicfaq/f/CDripping_legal.htm

Yes format shifting is then legal as the Britney Spears song in question, is actually owned by a foreign licensor. Of course re-selling it may violate licensing agreements and the local distributor could sue you. SA law can't violate foreign copyright as the song is owned by Sony-BMG USA and licensed to you as long as you have the physical CD and not Sony-BMG SA which can follow local law.
 
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