Cellphone tower on my property

[Tman*]

Why did take you this long to put 1 and 1 together? I dont mean to offend, but please be sure to get your ducks in a row before contacting the previous owner / MTN.

If I were you I'd use the element of surprise and take this scumbag out using every legal avenue possible.

 

[Ancalagon]

I'd be interested to hear what your lawyer says, but personally I would just contact MTN only.

Contact MTN and provide proof that you are the lawful owner of the property, as well as providing proof of what date the transfer went through.

I am not sure whether you will be able to reclaim rent for the past, because technically, you let this happen. You saw the tower on your property every day and did nothing about it. So, in theory, you are only to blame for not collecting the money.

However, this does mean that MTN was complicit in fraud. They paid over money to someone who had no legal right to receive it. At the very least, get MTN to get their own money back through the courts.

You might not be able to get MTN to pay that money back over to you - as I said, you could have done something about this earlier but didn't. But at least it is likely that you will ruin this guy's day and possibly get him sent to prison for fraud.

 

[Shoema]

I had been renting the land out since I bought it back in 2010. When I bought the land the previous owner told me that the specific piece of land didnt form part of the sale so I didnt inquire too much. It was only when i started digging deeper I realized it is actually part of my land. I did trace the previous owner and it turns out he works for the NPA. Whether he is a prosecutor I do not know but at least I know where he is now.

 

[infscrtyrisk]

I had been renting the land out since I bought it back in 2010. When I bought the land the previous owner told me that the specific piece of land didnt form part of the sale so I didnt inquire too much. It was only when i started digging deeper I realized it is actually part of my land. I did trace the previous owner and it turns out he works for the NPA. Whether he is a prosecutor I do not know but at least I know where he is now.

Your circumspection is completely valid.

 

[Arthur]

However, this does mean that MTN was complicit in fraud. They paid over money to someone who had no legal right to receive it.

No, MTN is not complicit in a fraud. Fraud requires mens rea, and MTN had none - on the face of it their sole intent all along is to pay what they (mistakenly) believe is the legal owner. If anything, they are a victim of fraud - the previous owner continued to represent himself as the lawful owner when he wasn't, and so money was extracted from MTN. Unjust enrichment by previous owner.

 

[airborne]

No, MTN is not complicit in a fraud. Fraud requires mens rea, and MTN had none - on the face of it their sole intent all along is to pay what they (mistakenly) believe is the legal owner. If anything, they are a victim of fraud - the previous owner continued to represent himself as the lawful owner when he wasn't, and so money was extracted from MTN. Unjust enrichment by previous owner.

But Mtn would still be liable to pay the rightful owner what has been essentially been unpaid rent?

 

[sajunky]

But Mtn would still be liable to pay the rightful owner what has been essentially been unpaid rent?

No. They had an obligation to check during signing a rent agreement. They have dealt with a real owner at that time. Other members pointed it already out.

 

[Arthur]

But Mtn would still be liable to pay the rightful owner what has been essentially been unpaid rent?

No, the rental agreement is a separate contract. There's no separate legal obligation outside of a private contract. Any owner is free to let a cell tower stand on her property without charging any rent. The new owner has no such contract. The previous owner has, but on the basis that he was the owner of the land. If the previous owner continues to receive rental while no longer property owner then that is arguably unjust enrichment - at a stretch he is defrauding MTN. Also, in terms of the Sale Agreement, the previous owner (seller) was probably obliged to transfer the rental contract/rights/income, but only examination of the AoS will clarify.

 

[Metallicson]

I had been renting the land out since I bought it back in 2010. When I bought the land the previous owner told me that the specific piece of land didnt form part of the sale so I didnt inquire too much. It was only when i started digging deeper I realized it is actually part of my land. I did trace the previous owner and it turns out he works for the NPA. Whether he is a prosecutor I do not know but at least I know where he is now.

Hi Shoema, so it's been more than a month, don't let us hang, give us the good news!

SKILL IS A TRADE.

 

[turbokrd]

Hi Shoema. Het gister op die internet gesearch en op jou post afgekom. Ek het dieselfde probleem en is besig om dit te beveg. Sal graag kontak met jou wil maak.

 

[ArmatageShanks]

Hi Shoema. Het gister op die internet gesearch en op jou post afgekom. Ek het dieselfde probleem en is besig om dit te beveg. Sal graag kontak met jou wil maak.

Stuur hom n privaat boodskap

 

[Shoema]

It turns out it the agreement between MTN wasn't with the previous owner but to the guy that sold it to him in the 90's. So the previous owner was in the same boat as me in regards to the tower. However the first owner had registered a right of way servitude on that specific piece of land. So basically there is nothing I can do. The servitude has no specific date on which it ends and the lease contract had been renewed. MTN sent a letter to my ex wife of all people confirming this, needless to say I never received the letter until it was sent to my attorneys 3 weeks ago. At least I tried.

 

[Venomous]

It turns out it the agreement between MTN wasn't with the previous owner but to the guy that sold it to him in the 90's. So the previous owner was in the same boat as me in regards to the tower. However the first owner had registered a right of way servitude on that specific piece of land. So basically there is nothing I can do. The servitude has no specific date on which it ends and the lease contract had been renewed. MTN sent a letter to my ex wife of all people confirming this, needless to say I never received the letter until it was sent to my attorneys 3 weeks ago. At least I tried.

Who is paying for the electricity for that tower? Servitude of right to use land does not mean you are forced to pay for the electricity.....

If its you you have the right to stop the supply.


And I would still push further against that servitude. I seem to think that if the land changes hands the servitude can be relooked.

 

[isie]

It turns out it the agreement between MTN wasn't with the previous owner but to the guy that sold it to him in the 90's. So the previous owner was in the same boat as me in regards to the tower. However the first owner had registered a right of way servitude on that specific piece of land. So basically there is nothing I can do. The servitude has no specific date on which it ends and the lease contract had been renewed. MTN sent a letter to my ex wife of all people confirming this, needless to say I never received the letter until it was sent to my attorneys 3 weeks ago. At least I tried.

This really doesn't sound right - right of way servitude is only for well like it sounds right to travel - so they have the right to get to the area of land where the cell mast is located. which makes sense since they need to service it.
the question is the land the mast is on - who owns it and who exactly is getting paid for the lease of that land - did the initial owner sell it to MTN or is he renting it out - if the former well nothing you can do if the latter then well you're owed rent. It could have been sold to MTN (using Praedial Servitudes) but then this would be noted on your title deed. If some one is profiting or you are owed the money i would fight this - if it was sold to MTN (which i highly doubt) then nothing you can do.

Correct me if Im wrong?

 

[Shoema]

This really doesn't sound right - right of way servitude is only for well like it sounds right to travel - so they have the right to get to the area of land where the cell mast is located. which makes sense since they need to service it.
the question is the land the mast is on - who owns it and who exactly is getting paid for the lease of that land - did the initial owner sell it to MTN or is he renting it out - if the former well nothing you can do if the latter then well you're owed rent. It could have been sold to MTN (using Praedial Servitudes) but then this would be noted on your title deed. If some one is profiting or you are owed the money i would fight this - if it was sold to MTN (which i highly doubt) then nothing you can do.

Correct me if Im wrong?

I am not fitting the bill for the electricity I have no idea who is paying but luckily it is not me or anyone renting the land from me. As far as the servitude goes my attorney got me a copy of the servitude sketch and its the correct piece of land. Im not sure whether its a right of way or another kind of servitude. Im unsure as to the legal terminology. According to the letter MTN sent me they told me about the servitude/lease contract and gave me opportunity to make any objections to it. However as I stated my ex wife got the letter and never told me about it at all. According to the title deed it says " en verder onderworpe aan die ewedurige uitsluitlike servituut reg voorgestel deur die figuur ABCD synde 'n gebied van 150..." Is there a way that this servitude can be set aside?

 

[isie]

I am not fitting the bill for the electricity I have no idea who is paying but luckily it is not me or anyone renting the land from me. As far as the servitude goes my attorney got me a copy of the servitude sketch and its the correct piece of land. Im not sure whether its a right of way or another kind of servitude. Im unsure as to the legal terminology. According to the letter MTN sent me they told me about the servitude/lease contract and gave me opportunity to make any objections to it. However as I stated my ex wife got the letter and never told me about it at all. According to the title deed it says " en verder onderworpe aan die ewedurige uitsluitlike servituut reg voorgestel deur die figuur ABCD synde 'n gebied van 150..." Is there a way that this servitude can be set aside?

so they probably have their own connection to the grid - there is a way but might need both parties to agree - so your lawyer will have to get invloved.
I'm just surprised the initial owner would have let it go (if he really did) it's like a lifetime of rent with little or no issues.

 

[sajunky]

Someone has mentioned that servitude is about a right to access a facility, not the ownership. You are owing this land marked ABCD, you can take any action required, in the most simple case a cancelling rental agreement. But you can get all outstanding rental fees, just get a lawyer.

 

[Johanm0507]

A few years back I bought a farm in the Free State near Bloemfontein. This was in 2010. A cellphone tower was already present when I bought the farm and I never really inquired about it. The then owner informed me that I should just stay away from it and let the maintenance crew do their thing every few months. Its now 8 years later and a friend of mine studying law asked me how much the cellphone companies paid me to rent the piece of land. The area where the tower is situated falls in my land. I was unaware that they were suppose to pay me for this. I then spoke to my neighbor and he informed me that the previous owner of the land was still getting paid for the leasing of the ground. I have been unable to make contact with this guy and think he avoids me on purpose because he knows he is not allowed to rent out my land.

My question is, where can I find out whose tower it is? Vodacom, Cellc or MTN? Next who can I speak to at these various companies to find out if there is an agreement in place or not. I will go see an attorney eventually to sue if need be or to draft a new agreement but I want to make sure of my facts before I go see them because even things as silly as sending an email to vodacom will be charged. Therefore i want to get all my facts straight before going to an attorney.

Thanks in advance

Good day

Hope you are well.

First make sure:
1. Check that the Tower falls within the boundary of your property; Just to ensure you are the owner of that portion of property.

On the site there will be contact details for the service provider, also there should be a BS (base station) number and name. This will be used to contact the service provider. Speak with one of their Leasing Managers / Site Acquisition Managers. They can assist you in finding the Company that was most likely leasing the property from the old owner, or to who they are paying their rental.

That is the person who you should issue summons against. The contracts usually state that the owner is responsible to inform the purchaser about the tower.

Hope this helps

 

[Johanm0507]

Okay so I found out the tower belongs to MTN, anyone know their legal department's email address? I also went to look on the original Title deed. The only servitude registered on the property is for the road my neighbor uses so they have no servitude in place. Going to see a lawyer next week.

Good day

2 things, please do not give my details and please do not harass these people.
I am trying to help, but not get involved if you catch my drift.


Nadene Van Wyk [ MTN South Africa ] <Nadene.VanWyk@mtn.com> - 083 209 1861
Danica Steyn [ MTN South Africa ] <Danica.Steyn@mtn.com>
Phumelela Manentsa [ MTN South Africa ] <Phumelela.Manentsa@mtn.com>
Khumo Maponya [ MTN South Africa ] <Khumo.Maponya@mtn.com>

 

[Johanm0507]

Good day

2 things, please do not give my details and please do not harass these people.
I am trying to help, but not get involved if you catch my drift.


Nadene Van Wyk [ MTN South Africa ] <Nadene.VanWyk@mtn.com> - 083 209 1861
Danica Steyn [ MTN South Africa ] <Danica.Steyn@mtn.com>
Phumelela Manentsa [ MTN South Africa ] <Phumelela.Manentsa@mtn.com>
Khumo Maponya [ MTN South Africa ] <Khumo.Maponya@mtn.com>

Secondly check how many other service providers are on the tower.
Also make sure if they are paying rental to the old owner and the amount. Seeing that it is a old contract it will not be much rental.