Changes coming for domestic workers in South Africa, says Ramaphosa

[maumau]

I don't care, I don't have a domestic worker nina, nina, nina

Like @grok we had to let ours go - we're suffering from salary cuts you know

 

[Paul_S]

Not everyone has the time to do their own washing, ironing and cleaning. Some families have parents who work 12+ hours per day or longer. Try the education sector where decent teachers have to prep lessons, teach a full day, mark hundreds of exam papers until 2AM for days/weeks on end, stand on sports fields on Saturdays and then magically in between find time to care for their families. It's not always a case of people being too lazy to clean their own stuff.

We had a local domestic who we were paying R270/half day for full time work and we had to let her go due to the financial issues caused by the lockdowns. Felt really sorry for her as even though she was a bit lazy she was loyal. On the bright side she was able to feed her two children and put them through school on her single income so I don't think it's exploitative. It's life. I've worked for far less just to survive and it sucks but at least domestic work is an honest living and one doesn't starve to death.

One can legislate minimum wages as high as one likes but what is the government going to do when there are eventually no tax payers left to fund anything?

 

[LCBXX]

Look! Citizens bearing the brunt for ANC fsckups! Again!

 

[Voicy]

Ever used one of these companies on the regular?
A bloody nightmare.

You always get someone different and thereby cannot build a relationship of trust with the person who enters your house and stays there for hours by themselves.

I've gotten home to find my whiskey flask half empty and a very badly written note on the kitchen counter on how she didn't have time to do most of the cleaning. Turns out she got plastered and passed out on the couch.

Gave them a second chance and the new one either didn't know how to do basic stuff or was just too lazy. Place was in a worse state than before she arrived.

Tried a new company who just didn't pitch, because apparently some staff didn't bother to show up for work.

That's the problem when you give people a fixed position where their rights are more important than the rights of the people paying them. They take advantage.

Got a foreign lady now who comes twice a month. She cleans a few other houses in the street as well. Does a good job, always shows up and never any issues.

Locals can go feck themselves.

All valid points, but that 2nd last paragraph is where the kicker comes in.

As an employee, I am contractually obligated to one company alone. Any other income I make on the side gets taxed at 43%.

So are you your cleaning lady's employer? What about the other houses? Who is obligated to fulfill the employer responsibilities? Or is she entitled to benefits from everyone equally or based on hours worked? Does she pay tax or even register her earnings?

Surely if you receive renumeration from more than 1 place, you are no longer an employee, but a contractor. So should these domestic workers not register as such? They can then claim tax deductions on travel costs, food, everything that you'd have to fork out to an employee.

I'm just playing devil's advocate. Where i live there's no such thing as domestic workers. Hell, they even import Swedish and Polish girls to work in hotels because the locals couldn't be bothered.

 

[deesef]

The sad truth is that many 1st world countries have an employment rate of 90%+, without these "artificial" jobs such as domestic worker, petrol jockey, etc.

Our dof government should concentrate on real economic improvement and stop trying to force unnecessary expense on already overburdened households...

 

[Nerfherder]

Ever used one of these companies on the regular?
A bloody nightmare.

You always get someone different and thereby cannot build a relationship of trust with the person who enters your house and stays there for hours by themselves.

I've gotten home to find my whiskey flask half empty and a very badly written note on the kitchen counter on how she didn't have time to do most of the cleaning. Turns out she got plastered and passed out on the couch.

Gave them a second chance and the new one either didn't know how to do basic stuff or was just too lazy. Place was in a worse state than before she arrived.

Tried a new company who just didn't pitch, because apparently some staff didn't bother to show up for work.

That's the problem when you give people a fixed position where their rights are more important than the rights of the people paying them. They take advantage.

Got a foreign lady now who comes twice a month. She cleans a few other houses in the street as well. Does a good job, always shows up and never any issues.

Locals can go feck themselves.

I have used a few and its been good.

I'm using Sweep South and its great, the ladies work hard to try and get regular business from you.

We use the same lady and just book her every week, if she can't make it they will replace on the day. Leave and UIF is sorted by the agency, if I want to change then I can just try another lady.
In the same way they are protected as well, there is no fight about money and getting fired on the spot. They can also choose when they want to work and if they have an issue with a customer they just don't take bookings with that customer again.

I think its a great model. Its going to professionalise the industry and I think it will work better for the ladies. They also have a job history with a real employment record.

 

[Nerfherder]

The sad truth is that many 1st world countries have an employment rate of 90%+, without these "artificial" jobs such as domestic worker, petrol jockey, etc.

Our dof government should concentrate on real economic improvement and stop trying to force unnecessary expense on already overburdened households...

That's how economies are built though. My wife an I can both work because we have people to look after the house and our children. Everyone does something to build the economy.

 

[deesef]

That's how economies are built though. My wife an I can both work because we have people to look after the house and our children. Everyone does something to build the economy.

It has been said that South Africans are one of the laziest nations in the world. You are just reinforcing that view...

 

[Nerfherder]

It has been said that South Africans are one of the laziest nations in the world. You are just reinforcing that view...

Who says that ?

Sounds like something a racist would make up. Are the whites lazy or the black people who work in their houses ?

Reality is that South Africans are sought out for their hard work all over the world (both black and white) so keep making **** up.

I definitely think that its not ideal that black people are destined to clean toilets for the rest of their lives. Which is why I support the professionalisation of the industry.
People doing any kind of service work should have a future and other opportunities.

I know what the future should look like. Most people wont be able to afford a maid because there are better jobs. Then those that do those kinds of jobs will only use it as a stepping stone to other things and so will mostly be young people.
You wont see older ladies doing the work until they break their backs.

The question is how do we get there?

 

[deesef]

Who says that ?

Sounds like something a racist would make up. Are the whites lazy or the black people who work in their houses ?

Reality is that South Africans are sought out for their hard work all over the world (both black and white) so keep making **** up.

I definitely think that its not ideal that black people are destined to clean toilets for the rest of their lives. Which is why I support the professionalisation of the industry.
People doing any kind of service work should have a future and other opportunities.

I know what the future should look like. Most people wont be able to afford a maid because there are better jobs. Then those that do those kinds of jobs will only use it as a stepping stone to other things and so will mostly be young people.
You wont see older ladies doing the work until they break their backs.

The question is how do we get there?

How do we get there?

Educate people, without the communities burning the schools down.

Stop government corruption, so that tax money can used to build infrastructure.

Build on these basic pillars to create an enviable economy.

 

[upup]

What is him going to say to them on the 2nd of November.
And what did he say about his anc staff who did not get salary.

 

[Nerfherder]

How do we get there?

Educate people, without the communities burning the schools down.

Stop government corruption, so that tax money can used to build infrastructure.

Build on these basic pillars to create an enviable economy.

and what do we do in the mean time ? keep working to feed our families.

 

[Moto Guzzi]

As anyone who employs staff. Would you do that work for the wage that you pay them?

No, in a functioning econmy, however SA is about collapased for most and difficult for more.

So back to the basics.....To start from new, like we will have to do and should do, no parasitism can be afforded, everybody must have a will to work, to learn, and if you cannot be your own boss and survive, there come times you must accept a pay offerred especially if like this type of job, where the homeowner at his house(Not his work) is another private individual, so your pay comes from his pay, not from a company or state job direct, thats the problem, how/where your pay comes from.

The etopias of promised high pays is a dream, that destroy jobs, and the reason is simple. Money is in strcict relation to Resources, you cannot pluck it from the "Cloud" or from a "Tree", or from the "Net". If a Govenrment prints too much money out of proportion to Resources, its going down.....Best of all Nature will control that and starve you greedys to death in the end.

The only way the Great Pay for every one can work, is if the world is not overpopulated, and there are enough Resources to print money for the number of people in that economy, then other factors can play out successfully.
Today with overpopulatuion of 3 Billion plus(1950-Ties already) up to 7 Billion(2021+) and forecast to 10 Billion(Future) that dream is getting milkier and faint.

Example of how Nature is Money's boss, always:
....Small town few people living for years relatively ok with limited water(Just one basic resource).
-The Politicians + local authority invite more people for votes to the town, they stream in.
-The local authority issue new house planning, building houses like crazy........Doom.

-The water source dry up, and is so depleted beyond repair for years.
-The original people paying taxes for years to have water, now has none.
-People start leaving.
--A Gost town coming up.... Town going down. Now you move and help flood another town, and so it steam rollers on.

This is a natural reality very few people on this planet understand(Educated does not play a role here), my guess is 0.001% or less.

 

[Beyond.Celsus]

All valid points, but that 2nd last paragraph is where the kicker comes in.

As an employee, I am contractually obligated to one company alone. Any other income I make on the side gets taxed at 43%.

So are you your cleaning lady's employer? What about the other houses? Who is obligated to fulfill the employer responsibilities? Or is she entitled to benefits from everyone equally or based on hours worked? Does she pay tax or even register her earnings?

Surely if you receive renumeration from more than 1 place, you are no longer an employee, but a contractor. So should these domestic workers not register as such? They can then claim tax deductions on travel costs, food, everything that you'd have to fork out to an employee.

I'm just playing devil's advocate. Where i live there's no such thing as domestic workers. Hell, they even import Swedish and Polish girls to work in hotels because the locals couldn't be bothered.

You are overthinking this way too much.
In a country where more than 30% of people are unemployed there is no room to feck about with nonsense.

We are not employers and they are not contractors. They are people trying to earn a honest living and if they do a decent job we are willing to pay them for it. If they don't want to there are another 29.9% to choose from.

If all of them don't want to and the government wants to make rules and regulations that make it difficult for us to reward them with money for a honest days work, there is the whole of Africa to choose from.

I will also not be forced to 'hire' someone and faf about with tax documents and registration bullcrap if I only need work done a few days a month.

Simple as that.

 

[Gaz{M}]

The ANC's solution to a fire that has gone out is to piss on it more.

 

[Voicy]

You are overthinking this way too much.
In a country where more than 30% of people are unemployed there is no room to feck about with nonsense.

We are not employers and they are not contractors. They are people trying to earn a honest living and if they do a decent job we are willing to pay them for it. If they don't want to there are another 29.9% to choose from.

If all of them don't want to and the government wants to make rules and regulations that make it difficult for us to reward them with money for a honest days work, there is the whole of Africa to choose from.

I will also not be forced to 'hire' someone and faf about with tax documents and registration bullcrap if I only need work done a few days a month.

Simple as that.

Uhhh, you sure about that, chief?

Domestic Worker's Rights in South Africa

What do you know about Domestic Workers Rights in South Africa, including labour laws? Find out information about domestic work labour law, domestic workers working hours, work and policy

mywage.co.za

SA has laws to protect domestic workers and ensure fair treatment

Employers of domestic workers should recognise that their homes are workplaces and thus must create a fair and mutually beneficial working environment for them and employees.

www.iol.co.za

If you're not their employer, try to let one go and see what happens...

 

[B-1]

The biggest problem is government believing gardening and domestic work is a practical job where you should earn a good living. It will never be that at best its a part time job or extra income. Why would you employ someone expensive if you can drop all your clothing off at a laundromat, get garden service, do light cleaning yourself and pick up someone on the corner once in a while to give a good clean. Few people pay minimum wage but there's a point where its just not worth it to have an employee.

 

[rvZA]

Look! Citizens bearing the brunt for ANC fsckups! Again!

The ANC cannot afford domestic workers having jobs and earning minimum wage. This will make them independend and this will cause the ANC to lose votes.

The ANC knows full well this will cause people to let domestic workers go and not employing them anymore. This allows the ANC to get those people dependend on them and a R350 grant.

 

[maumau]

Uhhh, you sure about that, chief?

View attachment 1178136

Domestic Worker's Rights in South Africa

What do you know about Domestic Workers Rights in South Africa, including labour laws? Find out information about domestic work labour law, domestic workers working hours, work and policy

mywage.co.za

View attachment 1178142

SA has laws to protect domestic workers and ensure fair treatment

Employers of domestic workers should recognise that their homes are workplaces and thus must create a fair and mutually beneficial working environment for them and employees.

www.iol.co.za

If you're not their employer, try to let one go and see what happens...

Some of us have let them go for this very reason.

 

[RonSwanson]

My own situation during lockdown was quite good, I guess, in comparison with many others. Even though the organisation that I worked for (a global enterprise) took a fair knock (not only in revenue but more so in terms of lost opportunities), full salaries were paid to those that worked from home. The only knock that employees took was that our increases were delayed by six months, so we all paid our dues to ensure the sustainability of the company. For this reason, I have paid my once-per-week domestic worker every month without fail, even though I asked her to stay at home for up to 10 weeks at a time during the various waves of Covid-19 infections. I didn't believe that a responsible employer could expect a worker to ride in a taxi to work.

She's not the best worker, she is lazy (compared with others) and even after 11 years' service, cannot work autonomously, she doesn't like cleaning stuff, and it shows, I have to make a special request if I want the kitchen cupboard doors and handles wiped off, the oven cleaned or the wall tiles in the shower scrubbed.

But she is good at ironing, that's always perfect, and she is loyal and trustworthy. She regularly pitches for duty and sometimes she completely surprises me when she washes windows / curtains out of her own. She enjoys sewing, so I pay her extra to do the hems of my new pants, and the sewing on of lost buttons and zips. As many shortcomings that she has, she has positive points. I trust her, she has the keys to my home, and and I look forward to her regular appearance once per week. She starts at 07H30 and leaves (at the very latest) at 12H30, once per week.

I am as much to blame for her non-performance as she is, because I put up with it for many years.

I am her only client. During the course of the past 11 years many neighbors have asked me if they could interview and hire her, they tried her out and she was fired from every position after 3 weeks maximum. No-one can tolerate her aversion to cleaning stuff. These days when people ask me about the quality of her work with the view to hiring her (in one of her free 6 days per week off), I am completely honest with them, and tell them about her shortcomings. I don't see the point anymore, because I know that she will be fired, like always, and then come to my home, teary eyed, make herself a cup of tea and then go back to her own home.

She has a smallish home (bigger than mine though) in Thembisa, which she inherited from her late husband's estate. It has a number of outbuildings which she lets to multiple tenants, and she does some sewing and clothing creation for the community, so she has other income streams at least. I wonder sometimes, if she hates her job so much, why she even bothers to come to work at my place, because despite many of her shortcomings, she's quite entrepreneurial, yet every week she is there. When the Covid-19 infection rates go up, I call her and ask her to stay at home, and she concedes. Then 8-10 weeks later, when infection rates get a bit better, I call her again and she comes to work.

In some ways I think that she hates her cleaning / ironing job at my place, but pitches because she's loyal, or perhaps some other strange reason. Clearly, she doe not need the work, yet she pitches. Every week.

I need to consider an increase for her, it's been 11 months since her last one, and with the huge fuel price increases, I know that it will affect her. Ramaphosa's empty promises is not going to pay it, and things are likely to get worse. And if we have another wave of Covid-19 infections, I will hopefully remain employed, and I will probably pay her to stay at home again.

I guess that we deserve one another