Changes coming for domestic workers in South Africa, says Ramaphosa

[WaxLyrical]

He just wants the domestic worker vote.

 

[Oneway]

I'll tell you what changes are coming -

If you double the minimum wage, all you will do is get half of the workers retrenched and replaced by 'illegal' alien workers who are happy to work honestly and get paid.

I would estimate 80% of the people who employ domestic workers dont need to (even CEOs can make their own beds), and they're kept on because they're essentially a part of the family.

With the economic crush that is happening, more and more domestics will loose their jobs because their employers simply cannot afford them.

You're making it worse, Cyril. I promise the market doesnt need your meddling. The minority of people exploiting their domestics are going to exploit no matter what you do or say - it's on them, not everyone else.

Yup - I am in that situation - I live in a very small granny flat and am quite capable of cleaning it myself; I no longer have a job thanks to Covid, but I feel for her as she has so many relatives' kids staying with her. Any utterances of upping wages and I will have to give her notice, sadly. I am on the cusp.

 

[RudderVator]

I hire a 20 year old college girl to do cleaning, ironing and washing a few times per week. Other perks as well, part of the package she provides.

Do get in touch

 

[RedViking]

Sweepsouth is a model of exploitation. The workers see about a quarter of what you pay.

Yap. Found out the company I was paying R210-R250 for 4 to 6 hours of work, only paid R110 to the domestic, where R40 was her traveling fees. That leaves her with R70.

 

[Beyond.Celsus]

Uhhh, you sure about that, chief?

View attachment 1178136

Domestic Worker's Rights in South Africa

What do you know about Domestic Workers Rights in South Africa, including labour laws? Find out information about domestic work labour law, domestic workers working hours, work and policy

mywage.co.za

View attachment 1178142

SA has laws to protect domestic workers and ensure fair treatment

Employers of domestic workers should recognise that their homes are workplaces and thus must create a fair and mutually beneficial working environment for them and employees.

www.iol.co.za

If you're not their employer, try to let one go and see what happens...

You are proving the point.
That is why more and more domestics are losing their income. Nobody wants to hire locals because of these laws.

 

[Sensorei]

You are proving the point.
That is why more and more domestics are losing their income. Nobody wants to hire locals because of these laws.

Precisely. Once you hire them you're stuck with them like herpes unless you want a CCMA case. I will employ only Malawians or Zimbos. They don't have the entitlement that the locals have.

 

[dusi]

Precisely. Once you hire them you're stuck with them like herpes unless you want a CCMA case. I will employ only Malawians or Zimbos. They don't have the entitlement that the locals have.

But this is the issue. Poverty and inequality existed before which created the informal work sector of domestic workers because it was affordable to employ workers for menial work. ANC changed laws and increased minimum wages, as a result less locals get employed in the informal work sector and more foreign workers are hired who come from even worse economic conditions. And the poverty cycle continues for local workers.

What we need to do is eliminate the informal work sector, so we don't have the rest of Africa coming to SA looking for work. This also breaks the entitlement mindset of local informal workers and the ANC government can't win votes by increasing minimum wage for domestic workers because no one is getting hired informally. This will force the ANC to create new jobs for the unemployed to appease their voters otherwise they'll lose power, and they'll have to regulate the domestic worker sector, and create service providers around the demand, so people using domestic workers are not employers but customers of a service provided by a local company which only hires local workers.

 

[maumau]

But this is the issue. Poverty and inequality existed before which created the informal work sector of domestic workers because it was affordable to employ workers for menial work. ANC changed laws and increased minimum wages, as a result less locals get employed in the informal work sector and more foreign workers are hired who come from even worse economic conditions. And the poverty cycle continues for local workers.

What we need to do is eliminate the informal work sector, so we don't have the rest of Africa coming to SA looking for work. This also breaks the entitlement mindset of local informal workers and the ANC government can't win votes by increasing minimum wage for domestic workers because no one is getting hired informally. This will force the ANC to create new jobs for the unemployed to appease their voters otherwise they'll lose power, and they'll have to regulate the domestic worker sector, and create service providers around the demand, so people using domestic workers are not employers but customers of a service provided by a local company which only hires local workers.

?

 

[dusi]

?

lol basically what I'm saying is we should only hire workers through a service provider. Move away from hiring people informally which actually creates more issues, such as the influx of foreign workers seeking informal work. Then it changes the dynamic of employer hiring a worker, to a customer using a service provider which employs workers. It will offer more protection for the person requiring the work done, and the person who does the work.

 

[DreamKing]

lol basically what I'm saying is we should only hire workers through a service provider. Move away from hiring people informally which actually creates more issues, such as the influx of foreign workers seeking informal work. Then it changes the dynamic of employer hiring a worker, to a customer using a service provider which employs workers. It will offer more protection for the person requiring the work done, and the person who does the work.

why the employers have no freedom to hire? more restrictions and more laws will create more jobs for local workers?

that really not difficult to understand the anc why they created more and more red tapes and laws for job creation, it is because they have supporters like you to tell them more restrictions is a better idea than people who have the free wills to do whatever they want to do.

 

[noxibox]

For those who say a domestic worker is essential how do people in other countries manage? In most places it is unusual for anyone other than the wealthy to have servants.

I honestly think the solution to all of this is to do away with domestic workers being treated as employees by the homeowners and instead they should rather be absorbed into proper companies who offer cleaning services.

That way they will be covered by all labour laws etc. ... and home-owners are no longer employers, but customers.

But they’ll be even more expensive.

That's the problem when you give people a fixed position where their rights are more important than the rights of the people paying them. They take advantage.

The problem starts with the company. They pretend to care about quality, but they really don’t. If they have bad employees delivering poor quality work it is because the company chooses to do so.

Surely if you receive renumeration from more than 1 place, you are no longer an employee, but a contractor. So should these domestic workers not register as such? They can then claim tax deductions on travel costs, food, everything that you'd have to fork out to an employee.

If they’re beholden to an employer then they’re an employee. The majority of workers referred to as contractors are really employees. Companies just happen to get away with breaking the law. Being a domestic worker simply doesn’t lend itself to being an independent contractor, which is the only type that is not an employee. If a domestic worker were an independent contractor they could have anyone they choose do the work and they can do it at a time that suits them. If you dictate hours and manage them then they’re an employee.

 

[DA-LION-619]

For those who say a domestic worker is essential how do people in other countries manage? In most places it is unusual for anyone other than the wealthy to have servants.

Did you hear the 3 bedroom house joke?

 

[Johnatan56]

For those who say a domestic worker is essential how do people in other countries manage? In most places it is unusual for anyone other than the wealthy to have servants.


But they’ll be even more expensive.


The problem starts with the company. They pretend to care about quality, but they really don’t. If they have bad employees delivering poor quality work it is because the company chooses to do so.


If they’re beholden to an employer then they’re an employee. The majority of workers referred to as contractors are really employees. Companies just happen to get away with breaking the law. Being a domestic worker simply doesn’t lend itself to being an independent contractor, which is the only type that is not an employee. If a domestic worker were an independent contractor they could have anyone they choose do the work and they can do it at a time that suits them. If you dictate hours and manage them then they’re an employee.

Who said hire domestic as permanent household servant? We're talking about someone cleaning a few hours in a week, it's something completely different and common enough everywhere.

Again, I'm in Austria now, min wage is 1500 EUR, people who are still not that well off still get a cleaner in once every week or two since enough disposable income to hire someone from the east that at a few hours at multiple different employers earns well enough that it's worthwhile.

That's not the same as what I think you have in your head of a domestic, most don't have a permanently available domestic /"servant", these laws affect them as well as it pushes up the minimum often enough and it's not just he min, it's more that all these hoops that end up being more than the effort saved cleaning are.

 

[Bighit]

i will employ only Malawians or Zimbos.

Off topic I know but my gardener on the weekend is Malawian and he told me that he had to quit his weekly job for a garden service as the other workers were threatening to burn down his house if he didn't leave the company.

Then when he crosses the border, even if his papers are all correct, he must still pay a bribe to be helped faster or they delay you unnecessarily at the border for the whole day. If you don't have the correct papers, you must pay a larger bribe to cross.

After all the cr@p that they go through to get a job in the first place here might be why they're so willing to work hard over here.

My local domestic on the other hand.... No comment.

 

[maumau]

lol basically what I'm saying is we should only hire workers through a service provider. Move away from hiring people informally which actually creates more issues, such as the influx of foreign workers seeking informal work. Then it changes the dynamic of employer hiring a worker, to a customer using a service provider which employs workers. It will offer more protection for the person requiring the work done, and the person who does the work.

Oh OK I get it, you make a good point but no way that would work in ZA.

 

[Zukat]

As anyone who employs staff. Would you do that work for the wage that you pay them?

Or how about you leave the free market to regulate itself via a natural supply and demand

 

[TheChamp]

You are proving the point.
That is why more and more domestics are losing their income. Nobody wants to hire locals because of these laws.

Hiring illegal immigrants works out well, until some taking each other for granted happens, since they don't have the options that formal employment comes with they do tend to get very nasty when there's a fallout.

 

[grok]

Hiring illegal immigrants works out well, until some taking each other for granted happens, since they don't have the options that formal employment comes with they do tend to get very nasty when there's a fallout.

Ooh much trouble, such scare. I'll still take an foreigner above one of our radicalised locals.

 

[TheChamp]

Ooh much trouble, such scare. I'll still take an foreigner above one of our radicalised locals.

Yeah, I have no issues with employing foreigners so good for you, their employment will still be subject to the prevailing labour laws so there's no issues, if you give them hassles they can take you to CCMA like everybody else so chances are that you would not like that.

It's not a scare tactic but reality, someone who does not have options in resolving a dispute will resort to very desperate measures, it happens all the time, and there are plenty of incidents around this.

 

[grok]

Yeah, I have no issues with employing foreigners so good for you, their employment will still be subject to the prevailing labour laws so there's no issues, if you give them hassles they can take you to CCMA like everybody else so chances are that you would not like that.

It's not a scare tactic but reality, someone who does not have options in resolving a dispute will resort to very desperate measures, it happens all the time, and there are plenty of incidents around this.

There are plenty of examples where local domestics are encouraged by their radicalised family to extort some undeserved compensation from their former employees, who have been branded racist and exploitative by the masses putting them of defensive even before the ccma case.

When I'm compelled to protect myself as an employee without getting any of the employee benefits there's no incentive for me to hire local since the foreigners do a better job anyway. The ccma doesn't scare me since I treat my employees/not employees fairly on principle, not selectively on skin color like current lot.