China Increasing Its Intercontinental Ballistic Missile Silos By A Factor Of Ten: Report

thestaggy

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What South African and other news outlets didn't feature prominently this week was the Russian Naval Review by Putin in which their latest was shown. According to Western analysts, the Russians are rebuilding their fleet with the emphasis on quality and are flexing their muscles:

MOSCOW (AP) — Russia has marked the 325th anniversary of the founding of its navy with ship parades at major ports. President Vladimir Putin attended the main parade of more than 50 vessels Sunday in St. Petersburg, which included ships from the navies of Iran, Pakistan and India. The Iranian frigate Sahand, which sailed down the Neva River in the parade, and the sea-base vessel Makran attracted attention from naval observers due to their unusually long voyages to Russia. Parades also took place in the Russian naval bases of Severomorsk, Caspiisk, Baltiisk, Sevastopol, Vladivostok and at the Russian naval base in Tartus, Syria.



The Chinese are starting to worry the US Congress:



The size and strength of the PLAN is massively over-exaggerated by including their coastal fleet. Most of their fleet is made up of frigates and patrol boats that are useless outside of their territorial waters. Their blue water capabilities are a lot less impressive and they still lag way behind the USN in the area of force projection.

The most obvious disparity is in carriers. The USN currently has 11 active supercarriers, with a 12th fitting out and a 13th under construction. China only has 2 active carriers (1 of which is a converted cruiser) with a further 2 under construction. The PLAN also has exactly zero experience with carrier warfare. Their first arrested landings on a carrier were conducted 9-years ago.

The USN fleet is also battle-tested, so while China is pumping ships out, its a case of quantity over quality at this point. It is one thing bullying Vietnam and the Philippines over fishing rights, another thing altogether dealing with the USN.
 

Cosmik Debris

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The size and strength of the PLAN is massively over-exaggerated by including their coastal fleet. Most of their fleet is made up of frigates and patrol boats that are useless outside of their territorial waters. Their blue water capabilities are a lot less impressive and they still lag way behind the USN in the area of force projection.

The most obvious disparity is in carriers. The USN currently has 11 active supercarriers, with a 12th fitting out and a 13th under construction. China only has 2 active carriers (1 of which is a converted cruiser) with a further 2 under construction. The PLAN also has exactly zero experience with carrier warfare. Their first arrested landings on a carrier were conducted 9-years ago.

The USN fleet is also battle-tested, so while China is pumping ships out, its a case of quantity over quality at this point. It is one thing bullying Vietnam and the Philippines over fishing rights, another thing altogether dealing with the USN.

Sure. But China only started naval construction recently:

China has a robust and efficient shipbuilding infrastructure, with over 20 yards having supported naval surface ship construction over the last decade, and dozens of commercial shipyards that exceed the largest U.S. shipyards in size and throughput.

All Chinese naval construction shipyards also build varying amounts of commercial ships. This commercial construction provides profits and supports shipyard design, workforce, and infrastructure development while reducing overhead costs for naval construction. This is in comparison to most USN production yards, which derive the majority of their work and profits from USN contracts vice commercial work.

Chinese ship design bureaus and shipyards use modern software, design practices, machinery, and ship construction methods comparable to those used at U.S. shipyards.

China builds both domestic and foreign (under license) machinery, control systems, and other ship components.

Almost all weapons and sensors on Chinese naval ships are produced in-country, and China no longer relies on Russia or other countries for any significant naval ship systems.

Chinese naval ship design and material quality is in many cases comparable to USN ships, and China is quickly closing the gap in any areas of deficiency.


China’s Navy, known as the PLAN (People’s Liberation Army Navy), is modernizing at an impressive rate. And on a vast scale. A key ingredient is the construction of a fleet of large destroyers, amphibious warships and aircraft carriers. The below photo, snapped from an airplane window on December 13, and shared on social media, captures the vast scale of this construction.

 

Mystic Twilight

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The size and strength of the PLAN is massively over-exaggerated by including their coastal fleet. Most of their fleet is made up of frigates and patrol boats that are useless outside of their territorial waters. Their blue water capabilities are a lot less impressive and they still lag way behind the USN in the area of force projection.

The most obvious disparity is in carriers. The USN currently has 11 active supercarriers, with a 12th fitting out and a 13th under construction. China only has 2 active carriers (1 of which is a converted cruiser) with a further 2 under construction. The PLAN also has exactly zero experience with carrier warfare. Their first arrested landings on a carrier were conducted 9-years ago.

The USN fleet is also battle-tested, so while China is pumping ships out, its a case of quantity over quality at this point. It is one thing bullying Vietnam and the Philippines over fishing rights, another thing altogether dealing with the USN.

The usa only has an advantage out in open water when the chinese navy leaves china, apparently in the latest wargames involving invading china, and defending taiwan against china invading, the usa (according to the air force at least) loses.
 

pinball wizard

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No need to. Most Chinese folk in this country pretend to struggle with English so that you mistake them for lesser humans.
Whilst I wont comment on that, I will say I get treated very differently by Chinese shop keepers when I have my wife with me as opposed to when I'm on my own.
 

thestaggy

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The usa only has an advantage out in open water when the chinese navy leaves china, apparently in the latest wargames involving invading china, and defending taiwan against china invading, the usa (according to the air force at least) loses.

The USAAF won in the most recent war game involving the defence of Taiwan and push in to China. It was Pyyrhic though and based on technology and concepts still in planning and development.


But the same is true for China. They are unproven. Lots and lots of gadgets but very little operational experience.

My opinion is China would take extremely heavy losses but pump out enough people and cannon fodder to wear the US down. A successful invasion of China is an impossibility in my opinion. China itself will also be incapable of threatening the US beyond US interests in Taiwan. At least for a good few decades until they have parity with the USN.
 
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Mystic Twilight

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The USAAF won in the most recent war game involving the defence of Taiwan and push in to China. It was Pyyrhic though and based on technology and concepts still in planning and development.


But the same is true for China. They are unproven. Lots and lots of gadgets but very little operational experience.

My opinion is China would take extremely heavy losses but pump out enough people and cannon fodder to wear the US down. A successful invasion of China is an impossibility in my opinion. China itself will also be incapable of threatening the US beyond US interests in Taiwan. At lest for a good few decades until they have parity with the USN.

Well I guess it depends on which assumptions and technology come into play for the various wargames. Basically the pla can't leave china and the usa can't enter china.
 

Cosmik Debris

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Forbes writer H.I. Sutton highlighted the December 2019 photo, which apparently depicts no fewer than nine destroyers and an aircraft carrier under construction or fitting out at the yard. “To put that into context, the Royal Navy’s entire destroyer fleet is just six ships,” Sutton explained. “And this yard is just part of a much bigger construction program.”

“The Chinese navy of today, and the future, is changed beyond all recognition from the Chinese navy of the past,” Sutton added. “The world naval balance is shifting.”

It’s true. Beijing since the 1990s heavily has invested in a sweeping naval modernization program that has resulted in the Chinese navy growing into the world’s second-largest maritime force.


Some pics and analysis of a few Chinese shipyards:

960x0.jpg


China-Navy-Bohai-Shipyard-expansion1.jpg


960x0.jpg
 

Blu82

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There is also some serious questions on the reliability of some of their systems.
As of the end of June, only one of Iraq's Chinese-made CH-4B drones was fully mission capable, contributing to a major shortfall in intelligence, surveillance, and reconnaissance capacity, according to recent U.S. government report. Unspecified maintenance issues are apparently to blame, but the news does follow reports that other operators of the type have been less than pleased with its performance.

Source
 

Cosmik Debris

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There is also some serious questions on the reliability of some of their systems.

Unspecified maintenance issues are apparently to blame

Of course. Give a sophisticated first world piece of equipment to third world educated people and you will have maintenance issues. Just like when the SANDF got rid of their first world educated maintainers and substituted third world maintainers for reasons of race optics.

And the reasons for the UAE wanting US drones instead of Chinese are political, not cost or reliability as the Chinese cost 1/4 the price:

For years, regional powerhouses, prevented from purchasing US-made drones due to strict export regulations, had turned to Beijing, a major supplier of armed drones, to address their security needs.

But last week, the Biden administration announced it was pressing forward with a hugely significant $23bn arms sale to the United Arab Emirates (UAE), a deal which could potentially see China's grip on the regional market loosen.

The deal, which was agreed by former president Donald Trump in his final days in office, includes the sale of 18 MQ-9B Reaper drones, scheduled for delivery to the oil-rich nation by the second half of this decade.

The US had been reluctant to sell armed drones to allied countries in the region, since it's a signatory of the Missile Technology Control Regime (MTCR), which, among other things, aims to prevent the proliferation of such weapons systems.

China, which never signed the export control regime, took advantage of the US absence in the market and sold armed drones to the UAE, Saudi Arabia, Iraq, and Jordan.

The UAE put Chinese-made Wing Loong II drones to combat use in Libya and Yemen. Iraq's Chinese-made CH-4B drones were also reportedly effective during Baghdad's campaign against the Islamic State group.

As of 2019, however, only one of Iraq's CH-4Bs was reportedly mission capable. That same year, Jordan sought to sell off its CH-4Bs, possibly indicating that Amman regretted its purchase.


 

LCBXX

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Whilst I wont comment on that, I will say I get treated very differently by Chinese shop keepers when I have my wife with me as opposed to when I'm on my own.
Interesting? Like how? I can't say that I've noticed the same, in that it drew my curiosity.
 

LCBXX

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Forbes writer H.I. Sutton highlighted the December 2019 photo, which apparently depicts no fewer than nine destroyers and an aircraft carrier under construction or fitting out at the yard. “To put that into context, the Royal Navy’s entire destroyer fleet is just six ships,” Sutton explained. “And this yard is just part of a much bigger construction program.”

“The Chinese navy of today, and the future, is changed beyond all recognition from the Chinese navy of the past,” Sutton added. “The world naval balance is shifting.”

It’s true. Beijing since the 1990s heavily has invested in a sweeping naval modernization program that has resulted in the Chinese navy growing into the world’s second-largest maritime force.


Some pics and analysis of a few Chinese shipyards:

960x0.jpg


China-Navy-Bohai-Shipyard-expansion1.jpg


960x0.jpg
Astonishing what you can achieve when you have a limitless supply of exploitable labour.
 

Dave

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Unspecified maintenance issues are apparently to blame

Of course. Give a sophisticated first world piece of equipment to third world educated people and you will have maintenance issues. Just like when the SANDF got rid of their first world educated maintainers and substituted third world maintainers for reasons of race optics.

And the reasons for the UAE wanting US drones instead of Chinese are political, not cost or reliability as the Chinese cost 1/4 the price:

For years, regional powerhouses, prevented from purchasing US-made drones due to strict export regulations, had turned to Beijing, a major supplier of armed drones, to address their security needs.

But last week, the Biden administration announced it was pressing forward with a hugely significant $23bn arms sale to the United Arab Emirates (UAE), a deal which could potentially see China's grip on the regional market loosen.

The deal, which was agreed by former president Donald Trump in his final days in office, includes the sale of 18 MQ-9B Reaper drones, scheduled for delivery to the oil-rich nation by the second half of this decade.

The US had been reluctant to sell armed drones to allied countries in the region, since it's a signatory of the Missile Technology Control Regime (MTCR), which, among other things, aims to prevent the proliferation of such weapons systems.

China, which never signed the export control regime, took advantage of the US absence in the market and sold armed drones to the UAE, Saudi Arabia, Iraq, and Jordan.

The UAE put Chinese-made Wing Loong II drones to combat use in Libya and Yemen. Iraq's Chinese-made CH-4B drones were also reportedly effective during Baghdad's campaign against the Islamic State group.

As of 2019, however, only one of Iraq's CH-4Bs was reportedly mission capable. That same year, Jordan sought to sell off its CH-4Bs, possibly indicating that Amman regretted its purchase.



The Turkish drone seems quite reliable and cheaper than US as well.

Ask the Armenians.
 

Cosmik Debris

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The Turkish drone seems quite reliable and cheaper than US as well.

Ask the Armenians.

The Turkish drones are doing quite well regarding sales and to the ire of the Russians, have been sold to Ukraine as well.
 
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