Chinese battery-maker announces breakthrough aimed at electric passenger aircraft

Jan

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Battery breakthrough for electric planes

Contemporary Amperex Technology Limited (CATL) has announced that the company launched an advanced battery that opens up new possibilities for the electrification of passenger aircraft.

The Chinese battery giant's new batteries have an energy density of 500 Watt-hours per kilogram (Wh/kg).
 
yeah, looking at the extreme angle of attack on those wings, that racing plane is HEAVY.

Planes will more likely go hydrogen eventually and biofuels first, since it more closely matches the current infrastructure requirements for fuel.

Much better for cars and trucks though. They desperately need to shave 500kg off the weight of cars and 5000kg off electric trucks
 
“CATL’s condensed battery leverages highly conductive biomimetic condensed state electrolytes to construct a micron-level self-adaptive net structure that can adjust the interactive forces among the chains, thus improving the conductive performance of the cells and in turn the efficiency of lithium-ion transporting while boosting stability of the microstructure,” it said.
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tenor(23).gif
 
For aircraft I don't think we'll see any electricity being stored in batteries, probably fuel cells if a practical electric design ever makes it, else it'll be carbon neutral biofuels or hydrogen combustion.

Problem with any kind of high temperature combustion however is NOX emissions
 
lkpat said:
That just means we're not yet on a par with fuel powered engones. That's not saying planes can't be powered by batteries.
Click to expand...

The problem is large passenger planes cannot land at their takeoff weight without damaging the undercarriage. They have to dump fuel to land if they need to return to the airport. Batteries weigh the same charged or discharged.

thepointsguy.com

How Pilots Calculate Bringing an Aircraft to the Ground - The Points Guy

The art behind a beautiful aircraft landing.
thepointsguy.com thepointsguy.com
 
Cosmik Debris said:
The problem is large passenger planes cannot land at their takeoff weight without damaging the undercarriage. They have to dump fuel to land if they need to return to the airport. Batteries weigh the same charged or discharged.

thepointsguy.com

How Pilots Calculate Bringing an Aircraft to the Ground - The Points Guy

The art behind a beautiful aircraft landing.
thepointsguy.com thepointsguy.com
Click to expand...
This is exactly why innovation happens so slowly. Were always trying to boil the ocean. People are risk averse and don't want to fail. What if the problem you're solving is not carrying hundreds of passengers across continents to start with?

What if you don't start with a design that requires a lighter aircraft to land than took off?

Maybe you're filling the niche for starters - Bloem to George, PE and EL for starters.
 
lkpat said:
This is exactly why innovation happens so slowly. Were always trying to boil the ocean. People are risk averse and don't want to fail. What if the problem you're solving is not carrying hundreds of passengers across continents to start with?

What if you don't start with a design that requires a lighter aircraft to land than took off?

Maybe you're filling the niche for starters - Bloem to George, PE and EL for starters.
Click to expand...

Pointing out basic problems with the physics isn’t stifling innovation.
 
lkpat said:
This is exactly why innovation happens so slowly. Were always trying to boil the ocean. People are risk averse and don't want to fail. What if the problem you're solving is not carrying hundreds of passengers across continents to start with?

What if you don't start with a design that requires a lighter aircraft to land than took off?

Maybe you're filling the niche for starters - Bloem to George, PE and EL for starters.
Click to expand...

It works out to laws of the economy of scale.

Less passengers in a heavy aircraft = higher running costs and less profit that has to be offset by higher prices that results in less passengers.
 
lkpat said:
This is exactly why innovation happens so slowly. Were always trying to boil the ocean. People are risk averse and don't want to fail. What if the problem you're solving is not carrying hundreds of passengers across continents to start with?

What if you don't start with a design that requires a lighter aircraft to land than took off?

Maybe you're filling the niche for starters - Bloem to George, PE and EL for starters.
Click to expand...
Problem with that approach is at the current energy densities it's not even a consideration. I agree with you btw but it's like transporting an elephant with a polo. Innovation will happen elsewhere and when we have 25x the density there will be a need to solve the other problems.
 
Swa said:
Problem with that approach is at the current energy densities it's not even a consideration. I agree with you btw but it's like transporting an elephant with a polo. Innovation will happen elsewhere and when we have 25x the density there will be a need to solve the other problems.
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And we have cars that can drive from Johannesburg to CT on a single tank of fuel, why do we need EVs?
 
lkpat said:
Or not
www.dw.com

Are electric planes ready for takeoff? – DW – 01/24/2023

It could be the biggest revolution in the aviation industry since the invention of the jet engine, but there is still much in the way before electric passenger planes before take to the skies.
www.dw.com www.dw.com

It's not the future. It's now.
And batteries like this can only improve efficiency.
Click to expand...

From that link. The energy density, safety and physics problems mentioned:

The biggest problem of electric flying continues to hamper Alice: The batteries are much too bulky and too heavy, and don't deliver enough energy for efficient and prolonged traveling.

After its successful first flight — a voyage of not more than eight minutes — the company drastically lowered Alice's expected travel range from 815 kilometers to 445 kilometers. This means that the electric aircraft can only be deployed on niche markets, but they are in demand nevertheless, Björn Nagel, the director of the Institute for System Architecture in Aeronautics (DLR) in Hamburg, told DW.

(Snip)

The quest for a sustainable battery-powered airliner has advanced a fair bit, but existing plane models are still far away from being capable of handling day-to-day flight operations. Unlike in the car industry, it's as yet impossible to power aircraft with the green power to achieve the industry's ambitious goal of more climate-friendly flying by 2035.

"As regards purely electric passenger planes, we are very pessimistic," Nagel said.

(Snip)

Initially, Tecnam's P-Volt light electric aircraft won't be able to fly more than 150 kilometers on a fully charged battery, including a mandatory 30-minute energy reserve. The range could be sufficient to serve certain short-haul routes in Norway, but would be of little use elsewhere.

"I am skeptical about electric flights because of range restrictions," Lars Enghardt, the director of DLR's Institute of Electrified Aero Engines in Cottbus, told DW. Enghardt said the DLR didn't foresee "batteries with sizably increased energy density in the near-term future."

Range restrictions of purely electric propulsion, he said, would provide limited opportunities in niche markets such as Norway. But, on longer routes with larger aircraft, hybrid-electric concepts could be the way to go.
 
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