Chinese fight to be black

[Alan]

Fallibility is a world wide phenomena, witness George Bush.
Any sane person has to ask themselves who is deluded here? And by my estimation it is certainly you alan85; you express similar sentiments to IaC but you are still here; what, can't leave can we? Stuck here are we? And still as deluded as you are?

I have said if before and I say it again now, and I am still waiting like we wait for all you trolls: what is your alternative? The gulag? Death camps?

Idiot.

Do you by chance call yourself Christian?

Whoa

Talk about timing. Good to see you're back to your old self again.

Very true. Seems to be happening a lot nowadays.

How confident are you about Dubya. If you've been so easily duped by the ANC then who's to say Osama hasn't done it to you as well.

Really Me. Who would of thought you'd come up with that.

Unfortunatly I can't leave for a while yet. Doesn't mean I must just give up until then. Gotta work towards improving this place so you might not be forced to leave in the end.

That's a good idea. We must start an altenative thread. There you can post what you think is wrong and how you would fix it.

Here we go, from one extreme to another.

Bwahahahaha.

Poking around in the dark are we. In the strictest since I am not a christian. Never read the bible. I haven't been able to come to a conclusion about whether there is a god or not. Sometimes I think there must be and others surely not.

 

[NewsFlash]

"Idiot" is not an insult. It is an observation.
And another one. My post above (all of them) apply equally to you.

We observed You and noticed you are the observed one here. So I must say I think your post applies more to yourself than anyone else here. Looked in the mirror lately, or are you hiding from your inner self.

Idiot (Just and observation )

 

[NewsFlash]

I am not a christian. Never read the bible. I haven't been able to come to a conclusion about whether there is a god or not. Sometimes I think there must be and others surely not.

Normally when you are in shiite you call on him and believe in him. Then again better the one with little hope then those with none. At least we are not all the observed ones, Kilo is

 

[mancombseepgood]

Aaah

I was not aware that your ancestors was taken as slaves from West Africa to work on cotton plantations in the Deep South ???.

Your claim to be called an African-American is about as idiotic as those S.A Chinese who claim to be black.

Ok... I see where this is going...
Tibby's definition of an african american.
Whats your definition of coloured Tibbs? Does it include people who didn't live in District six?
How many generations of coloured does one have to be to qualify?

 

[Nanfeishen]

Actually , the odds are higher the further back your family goes in this country , that you have or come from a mixed bloodline, of either Khoi , "coloured" (hate the word), or black blood somewhere down the line.
As to being South African, i feel safer anywhere in the world with my passport in todays day and age than carrying a passport from the U.S. , U.K. or many european countries, nobody bothers us anymore.
Dual citizenship is a crock and a copout, it is for fence sitters, running at the first sign of k@k, there is a lot of work to be done to build this country ,IF you are willing to WORK, and WANT a better future in and for this country. Nowadays it seems everybody wants to walk in to a job get a high salary and thats it, not prepared to struggle a bit.
Blaming the government is easy, if you want to change things so badly then go into politics and change it yourself, and the one thing that most people forget , is that we are still dealing with the "old guard" in government , those who faught against or were directly affected by apartheid, those will eventually leave , and make way for those who want to build a better country , who want to improve the situation, those who have never and were never affected by or prejudiced by the past. Patience!, living in a consumer society , leads to impatience, and the expectation of quick results, people have no idea about patience anymore.
If you want to know about patience watch China, that is a patient country, and will eventually probabily own most of Africa in a few yaers anyway, and then they can be as AFRICAN as anybody and everybody born in Africa.
Somebody once asked Mao Tse Tung what his thoughts were on the French revolution, and its effects on history, and his answer was "Its too early to tell".
Time will tell with us as well, are we doomed or not? , i dont know , i am an optomist by nature, and dont allow negative cr@p to influence me too much, but i know one thing, i am staying to find out.

 

[IanC]

Dual citizenship is a crock and a copout, it is for fence sitters, running at the first sign of k@k,

So while it's not cool (in your book) to call a person coloured, it's perfectly alright to call dual citizenship a "crock".?

 

[PeterCH]

http://www.mg.co.za/articlePage.aspx?articleid=292647&area=/insight/insight__national/

The Chinese were treated as Whites under apartheid, so it follows that they are not disadvantaged. Changing their status to Black for BEE reasons is BS.
The point of BEE is to help those who were previously DISADVANTAGED
and not to assist those who weren't, promote themselves further.

 

[PeterCH]

There's the insult again. Why can't people argue without getting personal?

If the Chinese want to be black then let them. They were classified as coloureds in the last regime so, depending on your point of view, it's a step up in the scheme of things.

People will be people - and will try and get an advantage wherever they can. I just wish some government official would publish a guide to racial classification because it's all making my head spin.

Chinese or maybe just Taiwanese Chinese were NOT classified as coloureds
but as Europeans. Maybe it was because Taiwan like Israel were strong strategic partners of the former government here, but
maybe also because the Taiwanese broght in a lot of dough with them. A Chinese person could own property in a white area, send children to white-only schools, etc. I had many Chinese classmates in school, but NO coloured, black or Indian ones. I don't follow....funny thing, most of my Chinese ex-school friends left SA for good in the 90's. Strictly speaking Semitic people including Israelis are not European White either but were always seen as 'white' too.

 

[IanC]

I had many Chinese classmates in school, but NO coloured, black or Indian ones.

I had classmates of all persuasions ... where did you go school ... and here's the kicker ... in what year? I am prepared to answer both those questions if you do.

I don't follow....funny thing, most of my Chinese ex-school friends left SA for good in the 90's.

Dunno, didn't keep up with any of my school mates.

Strictly speaking Semitic people including Israelis are not European White either but were always seen as 'white' too.

Ouch ... are you late for a Klan meeting or something?

 

[mancombseepgood]

What I want to know is whether the Euro Canadian person I know who is now Zulu by marriage... if their kids are PDI ?

 

[TELESPHORE]

Africa – welcome your new colonial masters – Chinese and Indians from an overpopulated East.

 

[Eh!]

Just to clarify, only Taiwanese had the same status and priviledge as Europeans from 1984 to 1994 as compared to say chinese from Singapore or Korean so it's not an issue of race but nationality in this context. SA had an alliance with Taiwan to fight commies in the good ol days hence the lifting of restrictions on Taiwanese in 1984, all other east asians did not reap the benefits. There's also a grey area in the sense that being treated as advantage for just a decade(1984 - 1994) is justification for exclusion?

I just want to add that this is the first time I've heard "chinese fight to be black" Most east asians I know have left the country or are planning to leave rather than fight the system.

 

[Eh!]

Africa – welcome your new colonial masters – Chinese and Indians from an overpopulated East.

What overpopluted east are you talking about? I can't speak for India but the rest of east asia have the lowest fertility rate in the world. The population density in asia is still lower than Europe.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_and_territories_by_fertility_rate

Netherlands Antilles (Netherlands) 2.09 1.99
122 Burma 2.37 1.99
123 Mauritius 2.02 1.95
124 Dominica 2.05 1.94
125 Iceland 2.03 1.92
" Turkey 2.16 1.92
127 Brazil 2.13 1.91
" Vietnam 2.53 1.91
Cayman Islands (UK) 2.05 1.90
Guadeloupe (France) 1.93 1.90
129 Lebanon 2.08 1.90
130 Algeria 2.80 1.89
" Kazakhstan 2.03 1.89
" Uruguay 2.37 1.89
Bermuda (UK) 1.68 1.89
133 Ireland 1.91 1.86
134 Moldova 1.63 1.85
135 Sri Lanka 1.98 1.84
" France 1.75 1.84
137 Saint Vincent and the Grenadines 2.11 1.83
138 Cyprus 1.95 1.82
139 Australia 1.79 1.81
140 Iran 2.20 1.80
Aruba (Netherlands) 1.80 1.79
141 New Zealand 1.80 1.79
Martinique (France) 1.80 1.79
142 Luxembourg 1.70 1.78
" Norway 1.81 1.78
Montserrat (UK) 1.85 1.77
144 Monaco 1.76 1.76
Puerto Rico (US) 1.90 1.75
145 Denmark 1.73 1.74
" Tunisia 2.04 1.74
" Seychelles 1.85 1.74
" Trinidad and Tobago 1.83 1.74
Anguilla (UK) 1.80 1.73
149 People's Republic of China (mainland only) 1.82 1.73
" Finland 1.70 1.73
British Virgin Islands (UK) 1.72 1.72
151 Serbia and Montenegro 1.70 & 1.96 1.68
152 Cuba 1.60 1.66
" United Kingdom 1.74 1.66
" Sweden 1.53 1.66
" Netherlands 1.64 1.66
156 Barbados 1.70 1.65
Isle of Man (UK) 1.64 1.65
Gibraltar (UK) 2.15 1.65
157 Belgium 1.61 1.64
" Thailand 1.88 1.64
159 Canada 1.64 1.61
Jersey (UK) 1.56 1.58
160 Macedonia 1.82 1.57
" Republic of China (Taiwan) 1.76 1.57
Saint Helena (UK) 1.53 1.55
162 Liechtenstein 1.49 1.51
163 Malta 1.92 1.50
European Union 1.47
164 Portugal 1.47 1.47
165 Belarus 1.25 1.43
" Switzerland 1.47 1.43
167 Georgia 1.41 1.42
168 Estonia 1.19 1.40
" Japan 1.41 1.40
" Croatia 1.94 1.40
Guernsey (UK) 1.35 1.39
171 Germany 1.38 1.39
172 Bulgaria 1.13 1.38
173 Romania 1.35 1.37
174 Austria 1.39 1.36
175 Greece 1.33 1.34
" San Marino 1.29 1.34
177 Armenia 1.47 1.33
" Slovakia 1.25 1.33
" Italy 1.18 1.33
180 Hungary 1.25 1.32
181 Andorra 1.25 1.30
182 Spain 1.15 1.28
" Russia 1.25 1.28
184 South Korea 1.72 1.27
" Latvia 1.13 1.27
186 Poland 1.38 1.25
" Slovenia 1.28 1.25
Northern Mariana Islands (US) 1.76 1.24
188 Bosnia and Herzegovina 1.71 1.22
189 Czech Republic 1.18 1.21
190 Lithuania 1.34 1.20
191 Ukraine 1.26 1.17
192 Singapore 1.16 1.06
Macau (PRC) 1.30 1.02
Hong Kong (PRC) 1.27 0.95

Coupled with the one child policy and the gender inbalance China's population plunge will be comming sooner than you think.
China's population bust
www.time.com/time/asia/ news/magazine/0,9754,168514,00.html

 

[Skeptik]

The Chinese were treated as Whites under apartheid, so it follows that they are not disadvantaged. Changing their status to Black for BEE reasons is BS.
The point of BEE is to help those who were previously DISADVANTAGED
and not to assist those who weren't, promote themselves further.

Uh, No! It's here in black & white p ). You only need to read it.
http://www.mg.co.za/articlePage.aspx?articleid=292647&area=/insight/insight__national/


"The Chinese could not vote before 1994. Variously classified as coloured and “non-white”, they were excluded from public facilities, banned from entering certain areas, and subjected to job and educational restrictions and forced removals.
.....
Darryl Accone, author of All Under Heaven: The Story of a Chinese Family in South Africa, remarked that the underlying problem was one of perceptions. “People imagine the Chinese were somehow white or honorary whites … a confusion with the Japanese, who did have honorary white status."

Chinese or maybe just Taiwanese Chinese were NOT classified as coloureds
but as Europeans. Maybe it was because Taiwan like Israel were strong strategic partners of the former government here, but
maybe also because the Taiwanese broght in a lot of dough with them. A Chinese person could own property in a white area, send children to white-only schools, etc. I had many Chinese classmates in school, but NO coloured, black or Indian ones. I don't follow....funny thing, most of my Chinese ex-school friends left SA for good in the 90's. Strictly speaking Semitic people including Israelis are not European White either but were always seen as 'white' too.

Interesting point. But remember, the classification was based on skin colour and appearance, not origin. Some fair-skinned people with mixed blood were classified white and went to white schools. In some cases they 'hid' their dark-skinned parents from school PTAs etc..

 

[Eh!]

I just came across AA in US of A regarding college admissions, anyone want some freedom fries. god I hate race based preferences.

http://opr.princeton.edu/faculty/tje/espenshadessqptii.pdf

A 2005 Princeton study showed Asians (not whites) bear nearly 80% of the cost of affirmative action in college admissions. Nearly four out of every five spots given to blacks and Hispanics in an affirmative-action regime would go to Asians in a purely merit-based system. 1

The average cost or benefit of college affirmative action in terms of SAT points (on 1600-point scale) is as follows: 2
Blacks: +230
Hispanics: +185
Whites: no effect
Asians: −50
Recruited Athletes: +200
"Legacies" (children of alumni): +160

 

[IanC]

The average cost or benefit of college affirmative action in terms of SAT points (on 1600-point scale) is as follows: 2
Blacks: +230
Hispanics: +185
Whites: no effect
Asians: −50
Recruited Athletes: +200
"Legacies" (children of alumni): +160

Now I wonder how it works where black people are in the majority ???

 

[PeterCH]

Uh, No! It's here in black & white p ). You only need to read it.
http://www.mg.co.za/articlePage.aspx?articleid=292647&area=/insight/insight__national/

Ummm I went to high school from 1989 to 1993. From 1989, when I started high school, we had at least
two Chinese people in our class and they were not discriminated in any way,
ie parents owned houses in white areas, the Chinese guy had an Caucasian/English girlfriend, things were dandy. My best friend in school was
Chinese (Taiwanese), he moved to Cape Town from Kimberley in 1991.
His father had about R14 million in assets in South Africa before even that point and owned some bakeriers, apartment blocks and a garage or two.
He never moaned about discrimination at any level, in fact most of my Chinese friends and their familes were afraid of what would happen post 1994,
and most left South Africa for Taiwan, OZ, Canada etc. The general opinion of the future of SA was very pessimistic
among my friends' family members at that stage. My friend did an engineering degree at UCT and left SA shortly thereafter,
it's a pity as he was a really cool guy.

In 1992 I also had
Chinese of Hong Kong origin in my class. No-one was discriminated in any way. Ok I'm wrong, the Taiwanese
crowd were not always fond of Hong Kong people .
We did not have any black kids in high school till after I graduated, maybe not until 1995.

Prior to 1984 I dunno. In 1985 I attended an private preparatory school with both black, white and Indian kids.

As for the status of other South East Asian people, I don't believe there were many Koreans and no Japanese except for embassy staff and corporate reps.

Nationality aside, by apperance, Koreans and Japanese often look paler than European Caucasian people, as a friend of mine put it, whose a lawyer in Tokyo, 'they just tan easier', although there is a wide gamut of complexions.

In my work I've come across at least two second generation Chinese,
both were Catholic and could not even speak Chinese but no-one ever spoke
of the prior system with any ill feeling. They are both in their late 30's, early 40's at present.

So I dunno what pipe the authors of your link were smoking. Maybe officially the Chinese could not do this and that,
but unoficially could do anything they wanted although my school had no black kids till 1995 and definately no coloured
kids before then either.

Finally I'm not sure of the level of discrimination against East Asian people in SA prior to 1984, but Taiwanese, Korean and Japanese companies did a lot of business with South Africa. I'm sure that there would have been repercusions for those ties
if there were serious human rights or even civil rights violations in SA against those people. Just speculating here though.

 

[kilo39]

How confident are you about Dubya. If you've been so easily duped by the ANC then who's to say Osama hasn't done it to you as well..

Dubya is an idiot. Osama is dubya's buddy. Duped by the ANC? So the mandate of the anc as expressed by Mandela or Tambo (or even tutu) is being duped? Do you have any clue? I cannot understand how your view of the world has any relevance. What exactly is your view of the world beyond some infantile belief in right is might: do you have some belief that 'the old ways' could be continued? What? And as always I am still waiting.

Unfortunately I can't leave for a while yet. Doesn't mean I must just give up until then. Gotta work towards improving this place so you might not be forced to leave in the end.

What are you talking about? Are your 'right wing views' "helping" south africa, or are you just blowing bubbles?

Some of the posters here are dripping with hypocracy. (Not you). They all take a poke at me for moving overseas and I am just fighting back and exposing their hypocracy.

I don't blame people for creating a back door because they do need one. Take bwana for example, he is American and he has a back door which he will use. Others here are quick to cast stones and they are not entirely honest about things.

On the issue of (british/european) citizenship, or any other: it is not something you 'create,' it is a fact of life, a birth right and not something that can be surrendered (certainly in terms of uk citizenship.) Perhaps this duel birthright gives a person an opportunity to think more deeply about these issues of citizenship, birthrights and ethnicity.

My parents gave their lives to this country; I did my military service (largely with my brothers in the coloured corp)... I once left thinking my one less white face on the street was a good thing. All of us wanted a democratically elected government. We all knew. The disappearances, the tortures, the deaths in detention. Steve Biko's death was front page news. Whatever. The english 'consciousness' changed this country from the inside, the udf, changed it from the outside. Then there was the anc.

 

[TELESPHORE]

What overpopluted east are you talking about? I can't speak for India but the rest of east asia have the lowest fertility rate in the world. The population density in asia is still lower than Europe.

Coupled with the one child policy and the gender inbalance China's population plunge will be comming sooner than you think.
China's population bust
www.time.com/time/asia/ news/magazine/0,9754,168514,00.html

China is huge yes, so is the arid land. China has the most populous in the world.

https://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/ch.html

Area: total: 9,596,960 sq km land: 9,326,410 sq km water: 270,550 sq km
Area - comparative: slightly smaller than the US
Land use: arable land: 14.86% permanent crops: 1.27% other: 83.87% (2005)
Population: 1,313,973,713 (July 2006 est.)
They are also the biggest Atheist nation in the world:

Religions: Daoist (Taoist), Buddhist, Christian 3%-4%, Muslim 1%-2% note: officially atheist (2002 est.)

Manpower available for military service: males age 18-49: 342,956,265 females age 18-49: 324,701,244 (2005 est.)
Manpower fit for military service: males age 18-49: 281,240,272 females age 18-49: 269,025,517 (2005 est.)


Already moves are being made to manage mines in Zimbabwe as management and mining expertise.