Colonialism wasn't all bad‚ says Helen Zille

[Johnatan56]

To disprove the notion that "without colonialism, we wouldn't have X".

Because X can be obtained without colonialism, that notion is false.

Yet colonialism did bring it. Rather celebrate the fact that something positive came out of the negative instead of saying all the hardships the people had to go through was worthless.

 

[Garson007]

That would be equally irrational, unless they were still enemies of Rome. To counter your example, how many Afrikaners still hate the British today? Practically none. Get over yourselves. Most of the world have had some sort of occupation but they got past it. It's only this subset of society that I see being left behind by the future because they keep clinging to the past.

There's nothing to get over. It's just a part of our history. A politician cannot defend the enemy and come out looking good. It is completely and utterly ignorant of her.

 

[Moosedrool]

To disprove the notion that "without colonialism, we wouldn't have X".

Because X can be obtained without colonialism, that notion is false.

No no no... no one is saying this...

I want to revert to the sanitation problem again because it is a good example of a true benefit without having to redevelop the whole thing for each civilisation. You do know the horrid discusting time the europeans actually had to face before perfecting that system? The Black Plague was a result of dense population in the most unhealthy environments deprived of proper sewage.

Nobody is meant to be thankfull for colonialism just acknowledge the facts... The example above were also heavily corrected in Japan after american occupation after WW2.

If you simply can't acknowledge the infrastructure improvements western civilisation brought to the country you are in fact an imbecile. It needn't be colonialism or war or that jazz but in this case it was.

 

[access]

independent judiciary‚ transport infrastructure‚ piped water

just to point out, its from the romans. the colonisers of the(our) colonisers.

 

[Knyro]

No no no... no one is saying this...

Did you read the thread, or tweets by the general public? Many are in fact saying that. Saying Africa would have never develped etc.

 

[Vrotappel]

To disprove the notion that "without colonialism, we wouldn't have X".

Because X can be obtained without colonialism, that notion is false.

Who is saying that (bold part)? Don't try and dodge the question.

 

[Knyro]

Here's one example.

Written language is what I would deem the prerequisite for the spread of knowledge. The Japs had it in the 500s. The Chinese had it before then.

Sub-Saharan Africa simply didn't have it, and it was missionary work(which is a form of colonialism) that brought it here.

Who were the ones who set up the trading post that would eventually become Cape Town. Missionaries or Colonialists? Missionary work only existed in South Africa because of the routes that colonialism opened up.

 

[Vrotappel]

Did you read the thread, or tweets by the general public? Many are in fact saying that. Saying Africa would have never develped etc.

What was the relative development levels when Bantus and Colonizers met the first time? If they did not meet Colonizers at all (left to themselves) what in the world would have let them get to current development levels? When they met Colonizers the first time they did not even have a written alphabet. Funny thing is that the colonizers alphabet came from other colonizers, they are not crying about it today.

 

[Knyro]

What was the relative development levels when Bantus and Colonizers met the first time? If they did not meet Colonizers at all (left to themselves) what in the world would have let them get to current development levels? When they met Colonizers the first time they did not even have a written alphabet. Funny thing is that the colonizers alphabet came from other colonizers, they are not crying about it today.

What's your point? You expect the Bantu to be grateful?

 

[Johnatan56]

What's your point? You expect the Bantu to be grateful?

Do you think, looking at the state of the rest of Africa, that South Africa would have the same/better standard of infrastructure if colonialism had not happened?
Yes or no answer.

What Zille said was that colonialism did have positive benefits, which is true. She was just dumb and said it to people that do not understand there are always at least two sides to everything and instead bury their heads in the sand.

 

[FrankieK]

Oh yeah, I could talk your ear off about Lee Kwon Yew all day.

However this is not how you gain sympathizers to your cause. If you want your country to be like Singapore why would you bring colonialism up in such a flippant manner? The narrative could have been different like "overcoming oppression", "hard work", "coming together as one", "education", "let's be like Singapore!" etc. in a positive light instead of "why can't you morons be like that?".

As a politician she should know better.

Isn't that funny, the rational thinkers understood exactly that from her tweets, yet the rest saw the word "colonialism", stopped reading and immediately spat out their dummy.

Edit to add. If the tweet came from Eugene Terreblanche then one could say that the intention was malicious. Yet it came from Helen Zille, whose credentials as an anti-apartheid activist is well documented.

 

[Garson007]

Isn't that funny, the rational thinkers understood exactly that from her tweets, yet the rest saw the word "colonialism", stopped reading and immediately spat out their dummy.

Calling people stupid is never gonna fly.

 

[Jola]

Calling people stupid is never gonna fly.

Unless it's correct ?

Edit : On second thoughts, no, not even then.

 

[Knyro]

Do you think, looking at the state of the rest of Africa, that South Africa would have the same/better standard of infrastructure if colonialism had not happened?
Yes or no answer.

What Zille said was that colonialism did have positive benefits, which is true. She was just dumb and said it to people that do not understand there are always at least two sides to everything and instead bury their heads in the sand.

Isn't that funny, the rational thinkers understood exactly that from her tweets, yet the rest saw the word "colonialism", stopped reading and immediately spat out their dummy.

Yes, because people move around, and given enough time pretty much anything is possible. Anyway it's irrelevant. Nobody deserves that kind of treatment just because their people aren't as advanced as others technologically.

How can you people bring up Zille, critisise the angry people when Zille is exactly the same as they are. For the last time she won't acknowledge the progress brought about by Hitler. Why do you deliberately ignore this?

 

[Ancalagon]

Yes, because people move around, and given enough time pretty much anything is possible. Anyway it's irrelevant. Nobody deserves that kind of treatment just because their people aren't as advanced as others technologically.

How can you people bring up Zille, critisise the angry people when Zille is exactly the same as they are. For the last time she won't acknowledge the progress brought about by Hitler. Why do you deliberately ignore this?

She probably won't acknowledge any progress brought about by Hitler because she knows that people like you will misread what she says.

Were social media a rational place in which a reasoned discussion could occur, she might elaborate. But she knows that, whatever she says about Hitler, her words will be twisted until she is a die hard Nazi supporter.

It's interesting that you still think Zille was saying African people deserved colonialism.

 

[FrankieK]

Yes, because people move around, and given enough time pretty much anything is possible. Anyway it's irrelevant. Nobody deserves that kind of treatment just because their people aren't as advanced as others technologically.

How can you people bring up Zille, critisise the angry people when Zille is exactly the same as they are. For the last time she won't acknowledge the progress brought about by Hitler. Why do you deliberately ignore this?

Except she isn't the same. She has a long career as an anti-apartheid activist. Do you think she suddenly became a racist after an overnight flight?

How can you people...

????? Who are you referring to?

 

[FrankieK]

Bringing Adolf into this business is a combination of Godwin's Law and reductio ad absurdum. Redactio ad Hitlerdum?

 

[Knyro]

She probably won't acknowledge any progress brought about by Hitler because she knows that people like you will misread what she says.

Were social media a rational place in which a reasoned discussion could occur, she might elaborate. But she knows that, whatever she says about Hitler, her words will be twisted until she is a die hard Nazi supporter.

It's interesting that you still think Zille was saying African people deserved colonialism.

Except she isn't the same. She has a long career as an anti-apartheid activist. Do you think she suddenly became a racist after an overnight flight?



????? Who are you referring to?

Bringing Adolf into this business is a combination of Godwin's Law and reductio ad absurdum. Redactio ad Hitlerdum?

I'm not saying Zille said. But unlike her I could easily foresee the kind of response a tweet like that would get. Funny how she can foresee the shytestorm acknowledging the technological progress brought about by the Nazis would bring but can't foresee that.

Hitler was brought up because the situations are similar. The Nazis did terrible things to the Jewish population in Germany back then, but they also advanced technology. Zille, being Jewish, won't acknowledge this. My my, how ironic. How hypocritical.

 

[Moosedrool]

He gave us Volkswagen and someone to point a finger too whenever we don't like how people are being treated.

 

[Johnatan56]

Yes, because people move around, and given enough time pretty much anything is possible. Anyway it's irrelevant. Nobody deserves that kind of treatment just because their people aren't as advanced as others technologically.

How can you people bring up Zille, critisise the angry people when Zille is exactly the same as they are. For the last time she won't acknowledge the progress brought about by Hitler. Why do you deliberately ignore this?

No it isn't, it's the entire point of the argument. Nobody said colonialism was good. Not once was it said. I said it brought some benefits.

I don't, I disagree with her there, das Dritte Reich did bring progress as I posted earlier, everything has at least two sides.

I'm not saying Zille said. But unlike her I could easily foresee the kind of response a tweet like that would get. Funny how she can foresee the shytestorm acknowledging the technological progress brought about by the Nazis would bring but can't foresee that.

Hitler was brought up because the situations are similar. The Nazis did terrible things to the Jewish population in Germany back then, but they also advanced technology. Zille, being Jewish, won't acknowledge this. My my, how ironic. How hypocritical.

Different argument.