Colonialism wasn't all bad‚ says Helen Zille

[Knyro]

You're kidding right? Do you know anything of the history of Japan?

Probably more than you.

But anyway enlighten us, who colonised Japan?

 

[Jola]

You think only places that were colonized have indoor plumbing and technology or do you agree that these things can be achieved in the absence of colonialism?

Of course these things can be achieved in the absence of colonialism.

However, in many areas of the world they were not achieved in the absence of colonialism.

 

[Johnatan56]

Probably more than you.

But anyway enlighten us, who colonised Japan?

I said invaded as well.

The United States' use of atomic weapons at Hiroshima and Nagasaki ended the war and led to a military occupation of Japan by the United States; but due to the American rebuilding process and willingness to share technology with postwar Japan, the countries' relationship prospered again, and an exchange of technology and culture produced a strong alliance. The countries' trade relationship has particularly prospered since then, with Japanese automobiles and consumer electronics being especially popular.

 

[vindicem]

You're kidding right? Do you know anything of the history of Japan?

Yes, Tom Cruise saved Japan and then made friends with the Emperor

 

[Knyro]

I said invaded as well.

No, what you said was

Let's work backwards and see if we can find a country that has not been touched by colonialists/taken over within the last ~150 years and see what their current state is.

You must be joking. So you used a few years' military occupation to take Japan out of the equation? LOL.

It is not the same thing. Considering Japan was already a first world country before the war with access to European and American knowledge/trade I'm calling BS on this one. Soldiers coming to your country (no settlers) to work out some treaties then the vast majority of leaving after a few years is not colonisation/taking over. They were defeated in a war. That's it.


Even if WW2 didn't happen Japan would be pretty much where it is today anyway.

 

[Xarog]

You think only places that were colonized have indoor plumbing and technology or do you agree that these things can be achieved in the absence of colonialism? Are you really saying the laws of nature are a product of colonialism? Was there no gravity before the colonialists? Newton wasn't a colonialist by the way and science is not colonialism.

Given that the people living in this region only gained the benefit of writing because of the evils of colonialism, how long do you think it would have taken the uncolonised people to develop indoor plumbing and "technology" on their own?

 

[Johnatan56]

No, what you said was



You must be joking. So you used a few years' military occupation to take Japan out of the equation? LOL.

It is not the same thing. Considering Japan was already a first world country before the war with access to European and American knowledge/trade I'm calling BS on this one. Soldiers coming to your country (no settlers) to work out some treaties then the vast majority of leaving after a few years is not colonisation/taking over. They were defeated in a war. That's it.


Even if WW2 didn't happen Japan would be pretty much where it is today anyway.

WW2 did happen. If the period afterwards with the Americans simulating growth had not happened, I doubt it.
And the Americans did occupy and improve Japan after throwing a bomb at them, yet the Japs quite like the Americans. Now what?

 

[rietrot]

Arguing about hypothetical situations were the world somehow developed in a different way is completely stupid. The past shaped the present, and the present will shape the future. There is no fixing history so that it is more to your liking.
A person can either be a victim and moan about how bad the past was or they can learn from it celebrate the good and try not to repeat the bad.

 

[Jola]

Arguing about hypothetical situations were the world somehow developed in a different way is completely stupid. The past shaped the present, and the present will shape the future. There is no fixing history so that it is more to your liking.
A person can either be a victim and moan about how bad the past was or they can learn from it celebrate the good and try not to repeat the bad.

Yes, but in Africa people like to be the victim.

It's what they do.

 

[Knyro]

WW2 did happen. If the period afterwards with the Americans simulating growth had not happened, I doubt it.
And the Americans did occupy and improve Japan after throwing a bomb at them, yet the Japs quite like the Americans. Now what?

Your entire argument is based on the assumption that non-colonised countries are worse off. Japan was already on the path it is on now. They wouldn't have needed the period of high growth because the country would not have been bombed to hell. They were already on an upward trajectory.

 

[Baise]

Your entire argument is based on the assumption that non-colonised countries are worse off. Japan was already on the path it is on now. They wouldn't have needed the period of high growth because the country would not have been bombed to hell. They were already on an upward trajectory.

Give us another example besides Japan.

They have a completely different culture and work ethic to everyone else in the world.

 

[Jola]

Yes, Tom Cruise saved Japan and then made friends with the Emperor

Losing a war is not quite saving Japan.

But the movie does demonstrate how Japan acquired technology without being colonised.

Still a good movie, gives one some perspective.

 

[Knyro]

Give us another example besides Japan.

They have a completely different culture and work ethic to everyone else in the world.

Don't need to. One can easily see that colonialism is not necessary, except Jonathan.

 

[NarrowBandFtw]

Don't need to. One can easily see that colonialism is not necessary, except Jonathan.

In general, not necessary, what about in Africa? Even one single example of a modernized African state that achieved it by themselves?

 

[Slootvreter]

In general, not necessary, what about in Africa? Even one single example of a modernized African state that achieved it by themselves?

Egypt :crylaugh:

 

[porchrat]

And when asked to do the same about Hitler, she wouldn't.

She tweeted:



That alone said volumes about her "rational" point of view. And went a long way to people getting angry with her.

Again you're shifting the goalposts. I agree she is a hypocrite in that regard. Perhaps she has some sort of emotional block against admitting this. It however does not impact on how she handled the particular tweet.

 

[Knyro]

Again you're shifting the goalposts. I agree she is a hypocrite in that regard. Perhaps she has some sort of emotional block against admitting this. It however does not impact on how she handled the particular tweet.

Whether something is flippant or not is subjective. Clearly you don't agree.

 

[Nanfeishen]

Along with horrible experiences for the colonised that still affect their descendants negatively to this day. Which is why expecting them to be grateful is foolishness and counter-productive to building a unified South Africa.

What is counter-productive to a unified S.A. is harping on about, living in, and trying to make reparations for the past. One cannot repare the past or make corrections, the past is the past it cannot be undone or changed.

One can build for tomorrow and a better future, and in so doing ensure that mistakes of the past are not repeated.

South Africa needs to move past its history and learn to embrace its future.

The question is why can a country like Singapore prosper so much despite their colonial past but South Africa can not?

Because Singapore is a city state of just over 5 million people living in close proximity to each other, not a country with 10x the population who cannot see past its history.

 

[Patrick_Hockstetter]

http://www.biznews.com/leadership/2017/03/27/rian-malan-zille-tweet/

Good retort

 

[Jola]

http://www.biznews.com/leadership/2017/03/27/rian-malan-zille-tweet/

Good retort

Yes, but who will read it ?