Colonialism wasn't all bad‚ says Helen Zille

[Vrotappel]

http://www.biznews.com/leadership/2017/03/27/rian-malan-zille-tweet/

Good retort

Let's quote from it!

Which brings us at last to the painful heart of the matter. Why this furor about Zille’s tweets? Because she’s posing a question South Africans are terrified to talk about. The constitution has come to mark the great divide in our society. On one side we have amorphous forces ranged behind Pravin Gordhan, including the SACP, the DA and the old stalwarts in Save South Africa, all trying to follow some variant of the course charted in our empire-influenced constitution. And on the other, Zuma and his primitive accumulationists, who’d prefer to gut the constitution, cut the judiciary down to size and annihilate mechanisms that prevent them from looting the treasury.

The most powerful weapon in the hands of Zuma’s faction is the idea that the present order is a relic of colonialism and white supremacy and must thus be transformed out of existence. The most powerful weapon in the hands of the Gordhan-related forces is one they’re too scared to use– like Lee Kuan Yew of Singapore, they believe that at least some of the colonial inheritance is good and should be carried forward — and not for the sake of whites; for the sake of the long-suffering masses, still yearning in every opinion poll for job creation and prosperity on the scale achieved by Singapore. The alternative is to follow Idi Amin and Mugabe into the abyss.

The Gordhan forces know this but can’t say it openly because it’s too dangerous, too controversial, and for blacks, too humiliating. We need to make it easier for them, and there’s only one way — ignore the slings and arrows, and pursue this forbidden conversation.

 

[Garson007]

http://www.biznews.com/leadership/2017/03/27/rian-malan-zille-tweet/

Good retort

Ah, more rationalization for a simple tweet. Stop digging. Stop shifting goal posts.

 

[Garson007]

What is counter-productive to a unified S.A. is harping on about, living in, and trying to make reparations for the past. One cannot repare the past or make corrections, the past is the past it cannot be undone or changed.

One can build for tomorrow and a better future, and in so doing ensure that mistakes of the past are not repeated.

South Africa needs to move past its history and learn to embrace its future.

Yes, except South Africa cannot move past its history. History is history. It's part of what makes South Africa, South Africa. Look towards the future, but don't try and cover-up the past. Colonialism is a bad part of our history, just as Apartheid was, just like South Africa of now will be if there is a future version.

 

[Vrotappel]

Ah, more rationalization for a simple tweet. Stop digging. Stop shifting goal posts.

Go read it, broaden your horizons.

 

[Jola]

Yes, except South Africa cannot move past its history. History is history. It's part of what makes South Africa, South Africa. Look towards the future, but don't try and cover-up the past. Colonialism is a bad part of our history, just as Apartheid was, just like South Africa of now will be if there is a future version.

Yes, history is history, but all of it. You can't ignore that the Nguni tribes colonised Southern Africa, or that the Zulus committed genocide against the San (well, mainly the men, the women were assimilated).

Or that the biggest victim group of colonisation in Southern Africa was the Afrikaners, or possibly the San, nobody knows these latter numbers.

This selective and twisted history that is being forced down peoples throats is just rubbish.

 

[konfab]

Live stream of the debate.
[video=youtube;UxzfFiCpTQU]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UxzfFiCpTQU[/video]

 

[Garson007]

Yes, history is history, but all of it. You can't ignore that the Nguni tribes colonised Southern Africa, or that the Zulus committed genocide against the San (well, mainly the men, the women were assimilated).

Or that the biggest victim group of colonisation in Southern Africa was the Afrikaners, or possibly the San, nobody knows these latter numbers.

This selective and twisted history that is being forced down peoples throats is just rubbish.

Of course. We should consider all of our history as we are all South African.

 

[Jola]

Of course. We should consider all of our history as we are all South African.

But that is not happening, history is being purged, sanitised and selectively quoted.

And a lot of that is being done by the ANC and EFF.

But I am by no means suggesting that other parties are innocent.

 

[yebocan]

Live stream of the debate.
[video=youtube;UxzfFiCpTQU]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UxzfFiCpTQU[/video]

D team debating....

 

[konfab]

D team debating....

With the ANC cackling in the background as usual.

 

[Garson007]

But that is not happening, history is being purged, sanitised and selectively quoted.

Happens all over the world. History is easy to whitewash when you're in control.

I remember the history that I was taught in primary school was completely different to what my sister was taught four years prior.

 

[yebocan]

With the ANC cackling in the background as usual.

Sounds like a pub..

 

[yebocan]

Sounds like a pub..

Member Beerwinkel....:crylaugh: ...

 

[daveza]

http://ewn.co.za/2017/03/28/opposit...call-for-zille-s-head-over-colonialism-tweets

JOHANNESBURG – The African National Congress (ANC) in the Western Cape has reiterated its call for Premier Helen Zille to resign over her controversial tweets.

Members of the Provincial Legislature (MPL) are debating Zille's tweets following complaints from the ANC which accuses the premier of breaking her oath of office.

The irony of ANC wanting her head for an accusation of breaking her oath when their own president has been found guilty of breaking his and is supported by the ANC.

 

[konfab]

http://ewn.co.za/2017/03/28/opposit...call-for-zille-s-head-over-colonialism-tweets



The irony of ANC wanting her head for an accusation of breaking her oath when their own president has been found guilty of breaking is and is supported by the ANC.

The only standards the ANC has are double ones.

 

[Vrotappel]

At least Mandela could acknowledge the benefits.

 

[grok]

The only standards the ANC has are double ones.

This is so true it deserves another quote..

 

[Swa]

Your entire argument is based on the assumption that non-colonised countries are worse off. Japan was already on the path it is on now. They wouldn't have needed the period of high growth because the country would not have been bombed to hell. They were already on an upward trajectory.

The whole argument is irrelevant. Bringing up Japan as a counter example doesn't do anything to advance the argument. Just because one nation is able to advance doesn't mean another can as well, but that's the garbage pc narrative we are being fed. Japan was on an upward path before and after being besieged. Funny that this is acknowledged but not that Africa was in a downward spiral until being colonised.

Yes, except South Africa cannot move past its history. History is history. It's part of what makes South Africa, South Africa. Look towards the future, but don't try and cover-up the past. Colonialism is a bad part of our history, just as Apartheid was, just like South Africa of now will be if there is a future version.

The only people covering up the past are the people still living in it. Ok, so let's say we all agree that colonialism was bad period. Suppose someone were to invent a time machine. Let's give everyone a chance then to go back and undo it and every aspect of it. How many people do you honestly think will do that? I know you probably wouldn't. I know Maimane wouldn't. I know C4Cat probably wouldn't. I know even BlackMamba probably wouldn't. I think that actually says it all. Sorry but a South Africa that can't move past its history is not a South Africa I can call mine.

 

[schumi]

Unrepentant Zille questions 'tsunami' over her 'statement of fact' on colonialism

Cape Town - An unrepentant Helen Zille believes a debate on colonialism should not be shut down.

The Western Cape premier was the last speaker in a snap debate in the provincial legislature over her recent tweets, which were seen to be lauding aspects of colonialism.

Zille is facing an internal party process over the tweets.

In a series of tweets on her way back from Singapore, the premier tweeted about colonialism, and ended off with: "Getting on to an aeroplane now and won't get on to the wi-fi so that I can cut off those who think every aspect of colonial legacy was bad."

On Tuesday, the premier bemoaned the reaction to "her statement of fact".

She said she was glad that her tweets had led to a debate, and again apologised "if anyone genuinely thought I was praising, defending or justifying colonialism".

She had never supported or justified, praised or promoted colonialism, she said.

Her visit to Singapore and Japan was eye opening, she said.

"It seemed to me that the colonised has overtaken the coloniser on the world stage, and I thought it was worthwhile asking why," she said.


Religion and colonialism

She said if she were to state that the worldwide legacy of colonialism was causing an average of 3 287 human deaths daily, people would be outraged if anyone suggested the benefits might outweigh the costs.

"I am talking about the motor car. Today in South Africa, this colonial leftover is not only a means of transport, but the ultimate status symbol," she said.

She also made an example of religion in relation to colonialism.

"To be consistent on the principle, if people believe the price was too high to acknowledge any advantage, then they mustn't drive a car or visit most houses of religious worship," she said.

She questioned the "political tsunami" over what she had said about colonialism, when textbooks in schools also talked about the positive effects of the time.

"If people believe that South Africans may say things that others may not, then the police must draw up schedules of what can be said by whom, and make sure this is in line with the Constitution," she said.


'You must now resign'

This was impossible and undesirable, Zille continued.

During the debate, the African National Congress and the Economic Freedom Fighters called for Zille to resign over her tweets, while the African Christian Democratic Party called for the premier to be forgiven.

The Democratic Alliance focused on the "sins" of the ANC, with MEC Beverly Schafer outlining how President Jacob Zuma and Social Development Minister Bathabile Dlamini had "breached the oath of office".

She said Zille's tweets did not amount to a breach of her oath of office.

DA MPL Masizole Mnqasela pulled out files of Zille's struggle credentials, referring to the premier as "honest, trustworthy, humble, and a humanitarian that has helped countless people".

The ANC's Khaya Magaxa said Zille was close to being a raving racist, while the EFF's Bernard Joseph said it was time for her to do the right thing.

"You must now resign," he said.

News24
http://www.news24.com/SouthAfrica/N...her-statement-of-fact-on-colonialism-20170328

 

[ponder]

Bottom line, colonialism brought zero benefits to Africa.