Colonialism wasn't all bad‚ says Helen Zille

[porchrat]

Well, while all or most whites benefited from apartheid, not all blacks benefit from crime.

I was something like 8 when we had our first democratic election. I didn't pick Apartheid. I was not given an opportunity to oppose it. If I didn't have a say in Apartheid happening I shouldn't have to pay for it or feel guilty for it.

 

[Craig_]

You denying the truth in that?

 

[rietrot]

Well, while all or most whites benefited from apartheid, not all blacks benefit from crime.

Edit:

What is this supposed to mean, you are a big fool if you think only blacks has aids.

All whites didn't benefit. That is exactly like saying all black people today benefit form the ANCs corruption.

 

[RyanPCMR]

Racial tempers are tested in threads like this.

 

[rietrot]

Racial tempers are tested in threads like this.

A good thing. This should be out in the open.

 

[Craig_]

I was something like 8 when we had our first democratic election. I didn't pick Apartheid. I was not given an opportunity to oppose it. If I didn't have a say in Apartheid happening I shouldn't have to pay for it or feel guilty for it.

While I agree that you shouldn't have to feel guilty for it, it is also not your place to tell others to get over it. It's like me robbing a bank and sharing the money with you, and although you knew it was stolen money I have to pay it back alone. Although you are not responsible, you are complicit. (Almost used a bicycle analogy but then the forum would implode).

 

[rietrot]

While I agree that you shouldn't have to feel guilty for it, it is also not your place to tell others to get over it. It's like me robbing a bank and sharing the money with you, and although you knew it was stolen money I have to pay it back alone. Although you are not responsible, you are complicit. (Almost used a bicycle analogy but then the forum would implode).

I seriously don't understand were you guys get this false idea of what apartheid was and how it benefitted white people in the way your bank robbery or stolen bicycle example represents.

 

[Craig_]

All whites didn't benefit. That is exactly like saying all black people today benefit form the ANCs corruption.

I said all, or most. I would say very few didn't benefit. And while all blacks do not benefit from ANC corruption, most blacks potentially benefit from BEE.

 

[konfab]

Well, while all or most whites benefited from apartheid, not all blacks benefit from crime.

Edit:

What is this supposed to mean, you are a big fool if you think only blacks has aids.

Translation:
Me: Here are some examples of group guilt that I can apply using your arguments, thus pointing out the flaw in your logic. Thus showing that group guilt is a bad thing.
You: So you are saying that group guilt should only apply to black people.

 

[Craig_]

I seriously don't understand were you guys get this false idea of what apartheid was and how it benefitted white people in the way your bank robbery or stolen bicycle example represents.

http://www.history.com/topics/apartheid

This I found after a 1 minute google. I'm sure I can find more.

 

[porchrat]

While I agree that you shouldn't have to feel guilty for it, it is also not your place to tell others to get over it. It's like me robbing a bank and sharing the money with you, and although you knew it was stolen money I have to pay it back alone. Although you are not responsible, you are complicit. (Almost used a bicycle analogy but then the forum would implode).

Complicity requires intent. It is associated with the word accomplice. I was not complicit in Apartheid. That part in bold is where your attempt to use complicity falls over.

 

[Saber_rider45]

Oh lordy the not all white people did benefit brigade is out again. Jesus take the wheel

 

[Vrotappel]

For many it is not. It will take generations to get over the effects from apartheid.

Why generations?

Afrikaners, Japanese, Germans, Koreans, Jews, etc. sorted out these issues in two generations or less.

 

[RaptorSA]

While I agree that you shouldn't have to feel guilty for it, it is also not your place to tell others to get over it.

Here's an idea...
GET. OVER. IT.

 

[Vrotappel]

Well, while all or most whites benefited from apartheid, not all blacks benefit from crime.

Edit:

What is this supposed to mean, you are a big fool if you think only blacks has aids.

Blacks also benefitted from Apartheid, compare SA to all the African countries up north that did not have apartheid.

 

[yebocan]

Racial tempers are tested in threads like this.

that is how push the discourse forward

 

[rietrot]

http://www.history.com/topics/apartheid

This I found after a 1 minute google. I'm sure I can find more.

I know the history. Your analogy that white people stole something then gave it back, but with the condition that we share just doesn't work. Your bank robbery example is even worse.

 

[Craig_]

Complicity requires intent. It is associated with the word accomplice. I was not complicit in Apartheid. That part in bold is where your attempt to use complicity falls over.

Why would there not have been intent, you want to tell me they whites couldn't see something was wrong?

Oh lordy the not all white people did benefit brigade is out again. Jesus take the wheel

These guys on this forum are quick to claim the positives when they say whites invented so many things, and quick to point out the benefits of apartheid, but always denies the negative is applicable to them.

Why generations?

Afrikaners, Japanese, Germans, Koreans, Jews, etc. sorted out these issues in two generations or less.

Well, I don't have much knowledge of those other countries, but here we have many generations of poor people with little to no education, most don't see a way out. BEE is trying to address that, but on this forum most are against that.

 

[Mephisto_Helix]

No problem knowing that I had better things like -

Lights and water
Education (when it was affordable, not that I minded, heh)
Safety
Access to better quality food

But, while I know I had those things over the rest of the population now, I won't feel any white guilt like I supposed to because I was a child at the time. I have empathy for that time yes but I also feel there has to be a time when everyone moves the fark on ... harping about the past and making today's people feel guilty does nothing to a country that needs to move forward.

 

[Hamish McPanji]

No problem knowing that I had better things like -

Lights and water
Education (when it was affordable, not that I minded, heh)
Safety
Access to better quality food

But, while I know I had those things over the rest of the population now, I won't feel any white guilt like I supposed to because I was a child at the time. I have empathy for that time yes but I also feel there has to be a time when everyone moves the fark on ... harping about the past and making today's people feel guilty does nothing to a country that needs to move forward.

Just like harping on about colonialism does nothing to move the country forward