Colonialism wasn't all bad‚ says Helen Zille

[R13...]

Still waiting for one thing she said that is wrong. Not holding my breath though.

I'ma make this easier for you. Below is my first remark on this today (in bold for your ref:

The opposite side of that majority (is that the minority?) also seem to lack the logic to understand the other side's point of view.

What did you read in that statement that makes you think I was debating the merits of colonialism?

 

[Pitbull]

I'ma make this easier for you. Below is my first remark on this today (in bold for your ref:


What did you read in that statement that makes you think I was debating the merits of colonialism?

Glad I’m not holding my breath.,,

So what’s your purpose in this thread then?

 

[rietrot]

Maybe you should keep up with local by-election results....just from yesterday: https://twitter.com/waynesussman. Massive evidence of the DA being steam-rolled . The only party being klapped looks like the EFF.

DA dropping almost 10% in some of those.

 

[rietrot]

She's presenting some sort of false dichotomy. Or rather I'm not really sure why she's discussing this even - it was to presumably ignite some sort of debate but when you start a debate it starts to look at all the possibilities of what would have happened with or without apartheid. The racists on the one hand think Africans would still be in skins and mudhuts without the nice colonialist accidentally stumbling on the continent and deciding to exploit it for its resources as if that was the only option or darkness for the continent.

Lol yes that was the only option. Pretending anything else could have happened is counterfactual. You can't change the past.

 

[cr@zydude]

Please explain to me how you compare the holocaust to colonialism...

He's not, how I read it. He's saying her colonialism random debate makes as much sense as someone saying the same about the holocaust.

Thanks for getting it. Pitbull claims to have all the logic in the world as he understands Zille's crap, yet cannot get my simple comparison. *insert facepalm like LazyLion's avatar*

At least some people can understand what I said.

Actually somebody specifically called her out on twitter asking if she would acknowledge the positives brought about by the Nazis. She denied there being any positives at all.

I tried to point out this hypocrisy on MyBB but no dice. They refused to see it. :crylaugh:

That's the reason I brought it up. She wants to discuss the positives of colonialism, but refuses to acknowledge positives that came out of what the Nazis did.

She’s discussing colonialism and you try and do a comparison to the holocaust. Not me having an issue with comprehension

I'm not comparing the two. I'm stating the certain outcomes occured because of each event. Zille wants to show that positives came from colonialism, I ask if she would do the same for the holocaust.

Also, has the DA forgotten the supposed agreement with Zille about tweeting? I thought that she wasn't allowed to do this, but the DA doesn't seem to mind this time.

 

[ProfA]

Also, has the DA forgotten the supposed agreement with Zille about tweeting? I thought that she wasn't allowed to do this, but the DA doesn't seem to mind this time.

Yet the DA wants to get rid of de Lille. :crylaugh:

 

[Pitbull]

At least some people can understand what I said.



That's the reason I brought it up. She wants to discuss the positives of colonialism, but refuses to acknowledge positives that came out of what the Nazis did.



I'm not comparing the two. I'm stating the certain outcomes occured because of each event. Zille wants to show that positives came from colonialism, I ask if she would do the same for the holocaust.

Also, has the DA forgotten the supposed agreement with Zille about tweeting? I thought that she wasn't allowed to do this, but the DA doesn't seem to mind this time.

And with that reasoning you would be right. Many people died trying to invent flight as an example. However saying Isreal is the Jewish salvation now because of the holocaust is not the same is it? Would have been if Isreal was not smack in the middle of the Middle East and in constant conflict.

 

[porchrat]

That's the reason I brought it up. She wants to discuss the positives of colonialism, but refuses to acknowledge positives that came out of what the Nazis did.

She's a hypocrite to be sure That however doesn't impact on whether or not her colonialism comment had any truth to it.

I still agree with her. There were positives to colonialism. There were also positives to Nazi rule in Germany.

Very little in life is all good or all bad.

 

[Hamish McPanji]

Don't forget why they left. They were the first to quit the corrupt ANC even before that was cool.

Tribalism. Or did I miss something?

 

[Vrotappel]

LOL the first two are fscking Linksfield and Northcliff. Some of the wealthiest areas in JHB. :crylaugh:

The others are probably traditional DA strongholds too.

Nah wait for the Provincial and National results. Then "the masses" can show the DA what they think.

The masses votes ANC, and if the ANC does bad stuff, they loot and burn stuff and vote ANC again.

No pandering to hurt feelings will change that.

 

[Knyro]

The masses votes ANC, and if the ANC does bad stuff, they loot and burn stuff and vote ANC again.

No pandering to hurt feelings will change that.

Yep, the DA's growth over the past 15 years has nothing to do with them trying their damnedest to shed the "racist white party" image.

 

[The_Right_Honourable_Brit]

LOL the first two are fscking Linksfield and Northcliff. Some of the wealthiest areas in JHB. :crylaugh:

The others are probably traditional DA strongholds too.

Nah wait for the Provincial and National results. Then "the masses" can show the DA what they think.

We know the masses don't vote DA -- that's a given, regardless of whether Helen tweeted or not. My point was your claim that the DA is being "steam-rolled" is obvious nonsense.

You said the DA will be "steam-rolled". What will be your objective measure of "steam-rolled"? Retain their vote of 2014? Have a vote shared reduced by 5%?

They will clearly retain their lead as the 2nd biggest party in SA despite what the EFF clowns on Twitter say.

 

[Knyro]

We know the masses don't vote DA -- that's a given, regardless of whether Helen tweeted or not. My point was your claim that the DA is being "steam-rolled" is obvious nonsense.

But you said the DA will be "steam-rolled". What will be your objective measure of "steam-rolled"? Retain their vote of 2014? Have a vote shared reduced by 5%?

"the masses" on MyBB means black people. As subtle as a kid with chocolate all over his face denying they raided the cookie jar.

If this keeps up they will be. I don't know, having their share of the vote reduced by a surprising margin would do.

They will clearly retain their lead as the 2nd biggest party in SA despite what the EFF clowns on Twitter say.

Reminds me of the ANC officials dabbing confidently with celebrities before they got their asses handed to them and lost several metros.

 

[saturnz]

She's a hypocrite to be sure That however doesn't impact on whether or not her colonialism comment had any truth to it.

I still agree with her. There were positives to colonialism. There were also positives to Nazi rule in Germany.

Very little in life is all good or all bad.

those positives were simply externalities, they were not intended, the main purpose was simply to extract as much wealth from the colonies as possible

so yes you can say colonisation brought infrastructure to Africa, but most of the infrastructure was put in place to extract minerals for export

 

[Vrotappel]

those positives were simply externalities, they were not intended, the main purpose was simply to extract as much wealth from the colonies as possible

so yes you can say colonisation brought infrastructure to Africa, but most of the infrastructure was put in place to extract minerals for export

In other words, "we took some of your gold but left you with mines, highways, power stations, schools, hospitals, etc. please don't **** it up".

Whether it was intended or not does not actually matter.

 

[saturnz]

In other words, "we took some of your gold but left you with mines, highways, power stations, schools, hospitals, etc. please don't **** it up".

Whether it was intended or not does not actually matter.

yes it does, in the same way 0.00001c matters

 

[konfab]

those positives were simply externalities, they were not intended, the main purpose was simply to extract as much wealth from the colonies as possible

Extract is simply the wrong word. Their intention was to create as much wealth from the colonies and use it to increase their standing against the other powers in the world.
The wealth didn't exist in the country till they bought the infrastructure to utilise it. This applies to farming as well as mining.

Think about your beloved parking lots, they would have no value if there were no roads or fuel stations.

 

[saturnz]

Extract is simply the wrong word. Their intention was to create as much wealth from the colonies and use it to increase their standing against the other powers in the world.
The wealth didn't exist in the country till they bought the infrastructure to utilise it. This applies to farming as well as mining.

Think about your beloved parking lots, they would have no value if there were no roads or fuel stations.

its not about the parking lots though, its about the location, the parking lots would have no value in Upington

and yes the wealth did exist in the country, the gold was there for thousands/millions/billions of years

 

[konfab]

and yes the wealth did exist in the country, the gold was there for thousands/millions/billions of years

The minerals existed, the wealth did not. The wealth only exists as a function of the people who want said minerals and the ability to obtain the minerals (which is called infrastructure), hence you cannot call the infrastructure an externality as it was fundamental to the creation of said wealth.

 

[TysonRoux]

LOL at the prolific troll.

Ramaphosa sends lions and tigers to hunt for overseas money

Surely Cyril doesn't want those colonials extracting all our wealth.