Colonialism wasn't all bad‚ says Helen Zille

[saturnz]

The minerals existed, the wealth did not. The wealth only exists as a function of the people who want said minerals and the ability to obtain the minerals (which is called infrastructure), hence you cannot call the infrastructure an externality as it was fundamental to the creation of said wealth.

LOL

 

[porchrat]

those positives were simply externalities

Irrelevant. Good did indeed come of it, whether the reasoning behind it was altruistic or not doesn't matter.

Does that make colonialism overall a good thing? No.

As an anlogy: Someone murders a guy. The guy he murders was at the time about to rape someone. Is it a good thing that he stopped the rape? Yea. Was it his intention to stop the rape? No. Does stopping the rape make the murder a good act? No.

Just because an outcome wasn't intentional doesn't mean it can't be a good outcome.

 

[satanboy]

Colonialism wasn't all bad‚ says Helen Zille

With colonialism, which began in South Africa in 1652, came the Slavery and Forced Labour Model. ... Many South Africans are the descendents of slaves brought to the Cape Colony from 1653 until 1822.

Depends from which viewpoint...

 

[rietrot]

Yep, the DA's growth over the past 15 years has nothing to do with them trying their damnedest to shed the "racist white party" image.

No it doesn't. That's because of the increase in the black middle class and the Zuma factor.

And availability of information

 

[saturnz]

Irrelevant. Good did indeed come of it, whether the reasoning behind it was altruistic or not doesn't matter.

Does that make colonialism overall a good thing? No.

As an anlogy: Someone murders a guy. The guy he murders was at the time about to rape someone. Is it a good thing that he stopped the rape? Yea. Was it his intention to stop the rape? No. Does stopping the rape make the murder a good act? No.

Just because an outcome wasn't intentional doesn't mean it can't be a good outcome.

the point is that doesn't justify colonialism in the way it was implemented, and trying to recognise the good that came from it is not constructive in any fashion

and once again, infrastructure designed to extract minerals from the country is not infrastructure that can be described as good, education designed to enslave a population is not good

 

[Jola]

... education designed to enslave a population is not good

You sound as if you are describing ANC education.

 

[porchrat]

the point is that doesn't justify colonialism in the way it was implemented

Nobody said it did (or at least Zille didn't as far as I could see). Only that there were some good outcomes.

 

[saturnz]

Nobody said it did (or at least Zille didn't as far as I could see). Only that there were some good outcomes.

those outcomes are only good seen in narrow relative terms (like ignoring all the deaths that came with it)

 

[porchrat]

those outcomes are only good seen in narrow relative terms (like ignoring all the deaths that came with it)

Having infrastructure is objectively a good thing.

The other outcomes, like oppression of an entire group on the basis of race, all the death, all the suffering, were bad outcomes. Zille didn't say there was nothing but good coming from colonialism, just that there was some good. If she had said there was nothing but good you'd have a point.

 

[saturnz]

Having infrastructure is objectively a good thing.

The other outcomes, like oppression of an entire group on the basis of race, all the death, all the suffering, were bad outcomes. Zille didn't say there was nothing but good coming from colonialism, just that there was some good. If she had said there was nothing but good you'd have a point.

whats the point of highlighting the insignificant positives?

I think from now on I will highlight insignificant positives in stories and see how far that gets me.

 

[porchrat]

whats the point of highlighting the insignificant positives?

Maybe she felt it was important to do. Maybe she's just a mad harpy. I don't know. I don't really care. All this schit started long before I was born. All I'm saying is what she said was correct.

 

[saturnz]

All I'm saying is what she said was correct.

in a very narrow context

 

[porchrat]

in a very narrow context

She provided her context, that some good did indeed come from colonialism. Everything we say and do is done within some sort of context.

It's the rest of the country that frothed at the mouth and blew it up to mean something it wasn't (some sort of justification of colonialism). Whether you like that shrill harpy or not is irrelevant. At no point did I see her justify colonialism and presenting her tweets as such is dishonest.

 

[ProfA]

Can't believe we are beating this dead horse again.

 

[Pitbull]

Maybe she felt it was important to do. Maybe she's just a mad harpy. I don't know. I don't really care. All this schit started long before I was born. All I'm saying is what she said was correct.

Working infrastructure of a country insignificant? :crylaugh:

Sorry I saw his reply in your quote and could not keep quiet

 

[yebocan]

Can't believe we are beating this dead horse again.

this happened before and will happen again...when she feels neglected/lack of spotlight...

 

[Pitbull]

Can't believe we are beating this dead horse again.

schumi figured we need to have another go at it

 

[porchrat]

Working infrastructure of a country insignificant? :crylaugh:

Sorry I saw his reply in your quote and could not keep quiet

Whether it pales in significance alongside the oppression of millions is a matter of opinion I suppose. I'm sure if you'd asked the people that lived under that sort of oppression whether they'd prefer their freedom over infrastructure it is hardly beyond the realm of possibility that they would choose their freedom. I think I might've done.

 

[Pitbull]

Whether it pales in significance alongside the oppression of millions is a matter of opinion I suppose. I'm sure if you'd asked the people that lived under that sort of oppression whether they'd prefer their freedom over infrastructure it is hardly beyond the realm of possibility that they would choose their freedom. I think I might've done.

Agreed, no disputing that.

However, history and facts have shown us that colonialism has brought significant advancements to colonies. If I sitting here now, was to think about all the Boer families who died in concentration camps fighting the English, I cherish their memory. But I'm glad the English did come here, else we'd probably still be living in houses with cow dung floors and riding on horse draw carriages.

Nothing wrong with remembering what happened and being grateful for what it has brought us. People suffered, people were enslaved, people died. That is all in the past, we're here now, reaping the benefits of those who sacrificed so much. One can't just focus on the positive or the negative. In context we're better off now.

 

[ProfA]

this happened before and will happen again...when she feels neglected/lack of spotlight...

She should have stayed on as leader of the DA I think as I think she really does miss the spotlight and relevancy. Instead she is pulling this twitter crap time and time again.