Colonialism wasn't all bad‚ says Helen Zille

[Jola]

Bantu education was a system that by its design was developed and implemented to keep the education levels of black people far below that of whites. The fact that it raised literacy levels is irrelevant and by no means makes it "not all bad" or defensible. :wtf:

Has ANC education been any better ? Serious question.

 

[Nicodeamus]

You do not tell a rape victim, that rape has its positives due to the advancement in DNA identification. Nobody wants to hear that ****.

You seem to have the same foot-in-mouth disease Zille has. Bantu education was a system that by its design was developed and implemented to keep the education levels of black people far below that of whites. The fact that it raised literacy levels is irrelevant and by no means makes it "not all bad" or defensible. :wtf:

One can still condemn the practice of all these things without recognizing that they also had unintended benefits.

Should we stop sending black kids to UCT and Oxford because Cecil John Rhodes colonised Rhodesia?

Should we not use Nuclear Power, because the first usuage was on Japanese children?

It is ridiculous. People need to just grow up. Now I get that politicians are bound to have to cut of their tongues, but I find it to be utterly dangerous to look at our recent past as a series of bad and good guys.

1. History has shown this to be dangerous.
2. It is a simple lie. Apartheid had benefits, as did communism, as did imperialism etc etc. These were all horrivle systems, but not all their legacies are horrible.

 

[Nicodeamus]

You do not tell a rape victim, that rape has its positives due to the advancement in DNA identification. Nobody wants to hear that ****.

Naturally I am not going to tell a rape victim that after she was raped, but 10 years along the line she can find a bit of peace knowing that her suffering might contribute to us identifying other rapest mush sooner and better.

 

[rietrot]

, as did communism,

Huh. What benefits did communism have? Population control?

 

[Nicodeamus]

Huh. What benefits did communism have? Population control?

The scientific development, most of the space race. The Tokomak magneic confinement. The idea of equality as a noble value (at least in terms of treating people). Communism killed 100 million people worldwide, but there are some benefits of it in our society.

The Russians gave 20 million people
to liberate Europe from the Nazis. Despite the Terror and genocide of Stalin.

 

[ForceFate]

Has ANC education been any better ? Serious question.

Difficult question but looking at objectives alone, I'd say yes. Outcomes is a different matter and all depends on many things.

 

[access]

All right, but apart from the sanitation, the medicine, education, wine, public order, irrigation, roads, a fresh water system, and public health, what have the Romans ever done for us?

funny cause its true?

 

[Barbarian Conan]

If you list thing like running water, electricity, cars etc as the benefits of colonialism, you are indirectly saying that black people would not have been able to implement that in Africa themselves. And that is racist, whether you like it or not.
China never colonised Brittain, yet the Brittish have gunpowder.
The Arabs never colonised Germany, yet the Germans have Algebra.
The US never colonised Russia, yet the Russians have light bulbs.

There's nothing to indicate that Africans would not have been able to incorporate "western" technologies into their infrastructure if they had not been colonised.

If you want to extol the legacy of Colonialism, you should focus on things that would be almost impossible without it.

 

[grok]

Huh. What benefits did communism have? Population control?

The scientific development, most of the space race. The Tokomak magneic confinement. The idea of equality as a noble value (at least in terms of treating people). Communism killed 100 million people worldwide, but there are some benefits of it in our society.

The Russians gave 20 million people
to liberate Europe from the Nazis. Despite the Terror and genocide of Stalin.

I thought it was the sight of Niehaus dancing..? :wtf:

 

[Verde]

Off course it was pathetically naive of Zille as a seasoned SA politician to send her colonialism tweets. What it shows is that she greatly overestimates the critical faculties of the SA twitter audience. If she realised that they generally have an IQ around 85, are virulent racists and suffer from acute victim mentality, she would not have bothered and saved her party huge embarrassment.

For what it’s worth this is what she was trying to convey:



If SA grew at the same rate as Singapore did (6.5% pa) in the 1st 22 years after independence, per capita GDP would be $21900. That would rank us at 34 instead of 88 ($5275) on the World bank’s per capita GDP list, in line with Spain (31) .

If SA manages to grow at the same rate as Singapore did (5.2% pa) in their 51 years of independence, per capita GDP would be $70600 in 2045. (This would rank 4 in 2016 just behind Norway)

Singapore (1) ditched victim mentality after independence. They recognised that they had agency and could build on the legacy of a painful past if they stopped blaming that past for their ills and instead took responsibility for their own future.

Zim is and many in SA are stuck in the mental slavery of victim mentality (like China(2) was after their revolution), convinced that everything from the past must be destroyed before there can be redemption, as decreed by Mao, Mugabe, Castro, Chavez, Malema etc.

1.no 9 on GDP per capita list in 2016
2.no 71 on GDP per capita list in 2016 despite 30 spectacular years of growth

 

[Sinbad]

SA's independence was a lot before 1994.

 

[Verde]

SA's independence was a lot before 1994.

Semantics - call it after the end of colonialism/apartheid then.

 

[BBSA]

Off course it was pathetically naive of Zille as a seasoned SA politician to send her colonialism tweets. What it shows is that she greatly overestimates the critical faculties of the SA twitter audience. If she realised that they generally have an IQ around 85, are virulent racists and suffer from acute victim mentality, she would not have bothered and saved her party huge embarrassment.

For what it’s worth this is what she was trying to convey:

View attachment 528737

If SA grew at the same rate as Singapore did (6.5% pa) in the 1st 22 years after independence, per capita GDP would be $21900. That would rank us at 34 instead of 88 ($5275) on the World bank’s per capita GDP list, in line with Spain (31) .

If SA manages to grow at the same rate as Singapore did (5.2% pa) in their 51 years of independence, per capita GDP would be $70600 in 2045. (This would rank 4 in 2016 just behind Norway)

Singapore (1) ditched victim mentality after independence. They recognised that they had agency and could build on the legacy of a painful past if they stopped blaming that past for their ills and instead took responsibility for their own future.

Zim is and many in SA are stuck in the mental slavery of victim mentality (like China(2) was after their revolution), convinced that everything from the past must be destroyed before there can be redemption, as decreed by Mao, Mugabe, Castro, Chavez, Malema etc.

1.no 9 on GDP per capita list in 2016
2.no 71 on GDP per capita list in 2016 despite 30 spectacular years of growth

Mandela actually realised this, that is why he established the TRC. Sadly it was a wast of time and money.

What would it take for the majority to move forward?

 

[Willie Trombone]

Mandela actually realised this, that is why he established the TRC. Sadly it was a wast of time and money.

What would it take for the majority to move forward?

A ruling party that instead of being concerned with keeping power, is concerned with the country's welfare.

 

[Swa]

You're confused about what the 'fruits of colonialism' are, that's all. All these wonderful things that make modern life were not created by colonialism, were not inspired by colonialism or based on colonialism. The oppression and exploitative practices of colonialism were not instrumental in the development of science and technology. The wonderful infrastructure we have here was, admittedly, facilitated by slavery and cheap labour and yes, the enormous amount of wealth taken from these lands, but essentially, colonialism wasn't a necessary prerequisite for the development of the modern Western world. This country would be more advanced and better off today if the European travellers had chosen to share, educate inclusively instead of exploiting, oppressing, stealing and excluding. The fruits you're talking about are not the fruits of colonialism, they are the fruits of science, primarily, and it's because of colonialism that so many had no access to these fruits for so long.

So you think you could have kept the wealth and the infrastructure? The world doesn't work that way whether you think labour was cheap or not, which is probably why no African country has made it with this kind of thinking. It takes money to pay for things and the fact of the matter is that colonialism brought all these things that's now being burned down whether you think it was necessary or not. How is it those that were most affected by it can see this but those that weren't blame them?

This is so stupid. You can't separate certain parts of history. Everything we have today is because
1 African tribes killed each other on the way down from central Africa.
2 Jan established his trade post.
3 Some disagreements between the Dutch and British resulting in the great trek.
4 descovery of gold and diamonds and some fighting over that.
5everything in between and before and after that.

Moaning about how unfair history was is completely ridiculous you can't change it and if you could you probably won't even be here today.

If Retief didn't go and fetch Dingane's stolen cattle we probably won't have Zulus today as they would have died in a famine few years later, who knows.

"You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to rietrot again." Don't know why as I've given to others as well.

:crylaugh: This ^ type of thinking is what makes Malema's life so easy when he spouts hateful race politics because it conveniently forgets that this countries mining wealth has made foreign companies very rich while using this countries "slave" labour and leaving many miners with serious terminal illnesses behind.

Only half the picture and it's this stupidity of the masses that makes it so easy for him and everyone else with that type of thinking. He should just F O A D. Should go back to Ethiopia like the Khoi-Khoi told him. :crylaugh:

You do not tell a rape victim, that rape has its positives due to the advancement in DNA identification. Nobody wants to hear that ****.

You seem to have the same foot-in-mouth disease Zille has. Bantu education was a system that by its design was developed and implemented to keep the education levels of black people far below that of whites. The fact that it raised literacy levels is irrelevant and by no means makes it "not all bad" or defensible. :wtf:

Rape? Seriously? You make that comparison? You're forgetting that none of those alive today were the victims. They just have a victim mentality which is now keeping them behind far more than Bantu education ever did. This is more akin to telling someone born from rape that there was some benefit to them.

If you list thing like running water, electricity, cars etc as the benefits of colonialism, you are indirectly saying that black people would not have been able to implement that in Africa themselves. And that is racist, whether you like it or not.
China never colonised Brittain, yet the Brittish have gunpowder.
The Arabs never colonised Germany, yet the Germans have Algebra.
The US never colonised Russia, yet the Russians have light bulbs.

There's nothing to indicate that Africans would not have been able to incorporate "western" technologies into their infrastructure if they had not been colonised.

If you want to extol the legacy of Colonialism, you should focus on things that would be almost impossible without it.

Missing the point. It's not whether they could or not but the fact that we do have these things because of it. We can't play what if's but the fact is that black tribes were still warring when the British came here so when would that have ended. Again how is it that those most affected can recognise the facts but the rest can't?

 

[Barbarian Conan]

Missing the point. It's not whether they could or not but the fact that we do have these things because of it. We can't play what if's but the fact is that black tribes were still warring when the British came here so when would that have ended. Again how is it that those most affected can recognise the facts but the rest can't?

Missing the point. It's not whether they could or not but the fact that we do have cellphones, ADSL and fibre because of the ANC. We can't play what if's but the fact is that white Nats were still using landlines, while trying to suppress information when the ANC came to power so when would that have ended. Again how is it that those most affected can recognise the facts but the rest can't?

 

[Willie Trombone]

Who is we? Fibre is old tech and I haven't seen it yet lol.

 

[ProfA]

And round and round we go.

I wish the blacks would just be grateful the whites came here and brought civilisation with them. Otherwise we all know they would all be living in caves with no clothes on.

 

[Spizz]

And round and round we go.

I wish the blacks would just be grateful the whites came here and brought civilisation with them. Otherwise we all know they would all be living in caves with no clothes on.

Which is exactly the kind of emotional BS that was thrown at Zille when she said nothing of the sort. If her tweet is seen as misguided and she is simply talking from a position of privilege, maybe education and reconciliation is the answer, not these kind of ridiculous accusations.

But no, it's far easier to throw race at fscking everything. Condemn and vilify everything and everyone white is the rule of the day.

 

[ProfA]

Which is exactly the kind of emotional BS that was thrown at Zille when she said nothing of the sort. If her tweet is seen as misguided and she is simply talking from a position of privilege, maybe education and reconciliation is the answer, not these kind of ridiculous accusations.

But no, it's far easier to throw race at fscking everything. Condemn and vilify everything and everyone white is the rule of the day.

Shame. She is an imbecile.