Colonialism wasn't all bad‚ says Helen Zille

[yebocan]

That's just a crazy parallel to make. The equivalent would be to say that some black people's murders by government during apartheid were justified.

The way I see this is that a group of embittered blacks, actively scanning for something to be outraged over, gleefully got what they consider to be ammo to have another whinge at whites. Rinse, repeat.

How about....this as a parallel...the current migrant issue in Europe...with a tweak...Europeans have no means to resist the influx, their culture has to adapt to the new reality. Adapt or die philosophy.

 

[Foxhound5366]

I'm not South African enough for South Africa, and not European enough for Europe. I'm not white enough to be called white by anybody except my own supposedly non-racial government. I am the man with no ancestors he is permitted to be proud of and no country to call home. Worst of all, no success I have ever achieved, am achieving now or will achieve in the future will not supposedly be tainted by that very same poisoned past of strangers. I reject all of this categorically.

 

[Flanders]

Shouldnt that rather be some killing of civilians by military wings of the anc and pac was justified?

Sure, sounds about right - as a parallel to his own. Of course I'm not agreeing with any of the examples used. I'm simply saying comparing the justification of farm murders with colonialism as a whole seems ludicrous.

How about....this as a parallel...the current migrant issue in Europe...with a tweak...Europeans have no means to resist the influx, their culture has to adapt to the new reality. Adapt or die philosophy.

But they do have the means. And then some.

If the colonization of SA was happening now and SA had the military means to resist but were bullied by its own leaders to just accept it...I'm sure the locals would be simply delighted to oblige!

 

[ponder]

Elsewhere

[video=youtube;wmax3ntBS0Q]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wmax3ntBS0Q[/video]

 

[Fulcrum29]

Elsewhere

/snip

To think, that in the middle-East the people are destroying their own successes.

 

[surface]

While many DA supporters I have met so far have been subtly old-school (to put it mildly), I always had high regards for Zille. She should have known better than to comment like this.

 

[Fulcrum29]

I see Helen’s Twiiter page has been re-organised, her debate is now grouped at the top.

 

[Sensorei]

Too many stupid people around. We all know about the evils of colonialism - we hear it 24/7. If colonialism was 100% bad then let's stop using electricity, running water, computers, telephones, TV, DVD players, cars, you name it. Let's start dressing cave man style again and forget about the the wheel for transporting anything. Forget about a written alphabet. FFS! If we can't separate the positives from the negatives we might as well just throw this country in the trash.

 

[Fulcrum29]

Too many stupid people around. We all know about the evils of colonialism - we hear it 24/7. If colonialism was 100% bad then let's stop using electricity, running water, computers, telephones, TV, DVD players, cars, you name it. Let's start dressing cave man style again and forget about the the wheel for transporting anything. Forget about a written alphabet. FFS! If we can't separate the positives from the negatives we might as well just throw this country in the trash.

Just want to know, countries which was never colonised do they not have these technologies available which you have mentioned?

 

[Foxhound5366]

Just want to know, countries which was never colonised do they not have these technologies available which you have mentioned?

Not too many countries that were never colonised, although it's a fair point in relation to Japan and China (where most of those supposedly 'colonial' gadgets come from these days). In an African context, though, I'm not sure you want to point to Ethiopia and Liberia (which barely qualifies thanks to its US relationship) as showcases for African prosperity without colonialism.

 

[Fulcrum29]

Not too many countries that were never colonised, although it's a fair point in relation to Japan and China (where most of those supposedly 'colonial' gadgets come from these days). In an African context, though, I'm not sure you want to point to Ethiopia and Liberia (which barely qualifies thanks to its US relationship) as showcases for African prosperity without colonialism.

Japan were never politically, economically and socially occupied? I guess the Japanese occupation and reconstruction is a myth… oh, not to mention their network expansion in the 1800s where privatisation was not exactly in Japanese hands. Power struggles, international relations…

China on the other hand, they have their history and several Dynasties, an exchange as one may say. Their society though is mostly untouched by outside powers.

It is an odd remark to say that SA would have been a cave man’s retreat should the Dutch East India never had eyed Good Hope as a crucial trading and maintenance post to support international trade. The indigenous had a lot to bargain with, with their undiscovered resources at the time. Too many seers today…

You have stated, that countries on this continent would have been unable to prosper without colonialism, how superior.

 

[FoXtroT]

Japan were never politically, economically and socially occupied? I guess the Japanese occupation and reconstruction is a myth… oh, not to mention their network expansion in the 1800s where privatisation was not exactly in Japanese hands. Power struggles, international relations…

China on the other hand, they have their history and several Dynasties, an exchange as one may say. Their society though is mostly untouched by outside powers.

It is an odd remark to say that SA would have been a cave man’s retreat should the Dutch East India never had eyed Good Hope as a crucial trading and maintenance post to support international trade. The indigenous had a lot to bargain with, with their undiscovered resources at the time. Too many seers today…

You have stated, that countries on this continent would have been unable to prosper without colonialism, how superior.

There is no counterfactual either way.

 

[Ho3n3r]

Just want to know, countries which was never colonised do they not have these technologies available which you have mentioned?

Nobody said non-colonialist countries can't.

But Africa can't.

 

[vindicem]

Jan is turming in his grave.
"Ons hettie kom *** soek nie, ons wou net n tuckshop oopmaak"

 

[chrisc]

Zille is too honest and this has been her downfall time and time again. Back in 2004 when the Democratic Party got 1.9% of the votes and the NNP got 5% in the Western Cape, she and her supporters agreed to form the DA, thinking that the NNP would see the light and reform

But the opposite happened and the NNP out-manouvered the DP. It was only a few years later when the NNP impoded on itself that the DA made any real headway

 

[Grant]

Elsewhere

bugger of with your colonialist tendancies

 

[Ancalagon]

Jislaaik, some people should not be allowed to use twitter. There should be a nanny with a fly swatter hanging around 24/7 that swats your hand as soon as you reach for your phone to tweet.

Or, at least hands your proposed tweet to someone to go through 3 levels of approval before it is tweeted.

Whether she is right or wrong is not the issue - its just flipping stupid. Plays right into the ANC's message about the DA being the white party who will bring apartheid back. And here is Madam telling them colonialism wasn't so bad. Is she brain dead?

 

[Fulcrum29]

There is no counterfactual either way.

History is set in stone, the result exists, there is no changing it. Imagine Spain eyed Good Hope… Shaka would have hurried back to the Congo, or maybe they would have had a better relationship. There is no point in discussing how things could have been. The North had many technological developments thanks to early middle-Eastern occupation, though some deny this. There is evidence that China had early trade with the Eastern side, as close to Zimbabwe and Mozambique. Foreign industrialism could have also brought education, something which the Chinese has introduced to this continent in recent times which may or may not be at a great cost.

 

[chrisc]

Maybe she had a "senior moment"?

 

[Mike Hoxbig]

Seems like the ANC is ironically calling for the DA to remove her as premier, when they can't even remove a guy who violated the constitution and his oath of office.

It appears like perceived racism > constitution and rule of law...