Colonialism wasn't all bad‚ says Helen Zille

[FoXtroT]

History is set in stone, the result exists, there is no changing it. Imagine Spain eyed Good Hope… Shaka would have hurried back to the Congo, or maybe they would have had a better relationship. There is no point in discussing how things could have been. The North had many technological developments thanks to early middle-Eastern occupation, though some deny this. There is evidence that China had early trade with the Eastern side, as close to Zimbabwe and Mozambique. Foreign industrialism could have also brought education, something which the Chinese has introduced to this continent in recent times which may or may not be at a great cost.

Indeed it is. Its a fun intellectual exercise to discuss what ifs; but not something to get yourself outraged over. Which seems to be the case here, yet again.

 

[chrisc]

Marius Fransman is an outright thug and will say absolutely anything to discredit the DA and Helen Zille.

 

[konfab]

Their society though is mostly untouched by outside powers

Minus the communism of course

 

[koeks525]

Why does Helen Zille still have a twitter account ?

 

[skye.za]

This will cause tension between the EFF & DA. The DA wont sacrifice a coalition agreement over Zille. She might be out the door.

 

[Vrotappel]

Why do these haters of colonialism still use the colonial language and Latin alphabet? Nothing good comes from colonialism.

 

[konfab]

This will cause tension between the EFF & DA. The DA wont sacrifice a coalition over Zille. She might be out the door.

LOL
Julias "Lindiwe is a tea girl who belongs in the kitchen" Malema.
Julias "Kill all whites- later" Malema

 

[konfab]

Why do these haters of colonialism still use the colonial language and Latin alphabet? Nothing good comes from colonialism.

Or fight for English to be taught at universities instead of a South African Language.

 

[Fulcrum29]

Nobody said non-colonialist countries can't.

But Africa can't.

That is not a certainty. Besides, studies have shown that large-scale white settlements had created inequalities and racial segregation.

At least in the very end, did 'modern' colonialism seek to abolish slavery due to economic changes.

 

[Fulcrum29]

Indeed it is. Its a fun intellectual exercise to discuss what ifs; but not something to get yourself outraged over. Which seems to be the case here, yet again.

I am not outraged, but it is silly to deny that black people would have been unable to succeed without colonialism. Yet again, what exactly?

 

[FoXtroT]

I am not outraged, but it is silly to deny that black people would have been unable to succeed without colonialism. Yet again, what exactly?

I think we are getting lines crossed here.

My original comment of "there is no counterfactual either way" means we can't know for sure how Africa would have turned out if there had been no colonialism.

In my second reply I'm not saying you are outraged, but the 'twitterazi' and everyone else who is blowing the gasket over this. ie. everyone is getting hot under the collar again because someone discussed colonialism without falling over themselves to say how bad it was and how Africa would have been a shining example without it.

 

[Fulcrum29]

I think we are getting lines crossed here.

My original comment of "there is no counterfactual either way" means we can't know for sure how Africa would have turned out if there had been no colonialism.

In my second reply I'm not saying you are outraged, but the 'twitterazi' and everyone else who is blowing the gasket over this. ie. everyone is getting hot under the collar again because someone discussed colonialism without falling over themselves to say how bad it was and how Africa would have been a shining example without it.

I understand, but my reply is more to talk with the general audience.

To end my discussion with a question, why did king Shaka Zulu gave land, Port Natal, to British adventurers?

 

[FoXtroT]

I understand, but my reply is more to talk with the general audience.

To end my discussion with a question, why did king Shaka Zulu gave land, Port Natal, to British adventurers?

Wasn't it because they saved his life?

 

[FoXtroT]

I understand, but my reply is more to talk with the general audience.

To end my discussion with a question, why did king Shaka Zulu gave land, Port Natal, to British adventurers?

Wasn't it because they saved his life?

 

[Fulcrum29]

Wasn't it because they saved his life?

Yes, there was an assassination attempt made on Shaka due to his interest in a white-man led adventure party. Henry Fynn, a surgeon, treated his wounds which turned into a relationship between an English trading company, Farewell Trading Company, and the Zulu king. Francis Farewell, Fynn and company grew close to the Zulu king. Through this, the Farewell Trading Company provided the Zulu’s with many remedies to their ailments, also the medical skills Fynn applied to the Zulu’s. This respected and trusted relationship ensured the Farewell Trading Company’s protection and kept the British as a non-threatening occupier. As things developed, the Zulu king granted the Farewell Trading Company land which was in return occupied by the British to establish trade between the empires. This is where the Zulu king became a threat to his own people, very Roman’ish and not very ancestry. We all know what happened then, but remember that this was only documented by the British colonists.

So, we know that the Ingonyama Trust recently laid claim on this land which includes the land, Port Natal, given by King Shaka. Their reasoning through Zulu custom is that land ownership can only be changed by conquest which invalidates the documented grant, signed (X-mark) by Shaka and Zulu witnesses, to the Farewell Trading Company and co.

Colonialism vs tribalism. As much as King Shaka Zulu is hailed as a Zulu success story by black people, many don’t see the picture the king had on colonialism, he was assassinated at the end. Dingaan was not an good leader, historically. Dingaan actually targeted the Farewell and Fynn party, and other white settlements.

Why this story, people shaped the mindset and this is a special story considering that King Shaka was an ethnic cleansing wrecking ball, yet he had a workable relationship with white colonists. But then again, they were colonists themselves.

 

[Knyro]

Why do these haters of colonialism still use the colonial language and Latin alphabet? Nothing good comes from colonialism.

じゃあこれからみんなは他の文字と言語を使えばいいですか。私は構わない。むしろ漢字に比べたらローマ字はダサイ。こっちの方がもっとかっこいいと思う。

 

[w1z4rd]

I am not outraged, but it is silly to deny that black people would have been unable to succeed without colonialism. Yet again, what exactly?

Well, the problem is thinking that colonization=white or =european.

Black people (bantu) would not be in South Africa if it was not for colonialism. They are colinizers themselves. Unless you are a hunter gatherer, you are the descendent of a colonizer. I hate these double standards south africans apply.

 

[Willie Trombone]

Well, the problem is thinking that colonization=white or =european.

Black people (bantu) would not be in South Africa if it was not for colonialism. They are colinizers themselves. Unless you are a hunter gatherer, you are the descendent of a colonizer. I hate these double standards south africans apply.

+1
Shaka was from Bulawayo AFAIK. He is a colonialist.
The trouble with people is they throw the baby out with the bathwater.
Not all white people live in Africa because they want slaves. What was David Livingstone doing here again? Wasn't he mzungu?

What really got me was watching Musi standing in front of a picture of what looked like the colonization of the Cape by the French, berating Zille for what she said. Also why do people equate colonialism to apartheid? Two completely different things.

 

[Knyro]

+1
Shaka was from Bulawayo AFAIK.

No he wasn't. He was born in KZN.

 

[Willie Trombone]

No he wasn't. He was born in KZN.

Bulawayo as in the capital of the Zulu kingdom - not the city in Zim. Point remains. He, along with almost every nation of the time, had no respect for the borders of others. The modus operandi of the majority of the time was conquest and claiming land and resources for yourself and your kind. Colonialism.

Where are these South African tribes that welcomed each other to live together in peace and harmony?