Company wants me to work a day first before contract

HavocXphere

Honorary Master
Joined
Oct 19, 2007
Messages
33,155
I am one of those guys who have only worked for about 7 months now but from what I can tell I am at the same skill level as guys with 5 to 6 years experience.
South Africa has very little to teach
bwhahaha. Now there is Dunning–Kruger effect example of note.

The problem with not even knowing how much one doesn't know is that its usually painfully obvious to at least some of the others.
 

Gnome

Executive Member
Joined
Sep 19, 2005
Messages
7,208
@OP:
Frankly, you seem to hold yourself in very high esteem.
And you've already made up your mind, your posts just read like someone looking for validation...

You have basically no experience and no-one will take you seriously no matter how awesome you are.
I was also arrogant once, joined a company that only "hires the best" (1 code challenge, 2x1 hour phone screens and 6x1hour interviews later)
Even there I thought I was awesome for a long while.

Takes time to realize that it isn't about your technical skill.

We hire a lot of people at different skill levels.
Many of the developers we hire straight out of varsity have incredible high level of technical skills.

However being leader isn't about being right or being technically gifted.
You think you are the best and other people know it. (people aren't stupid)
Why would anyone follow someone that always thinks they are better than you.

More importantly, if you evaluate a solution immediately with the attitude of I am the best, you've already biased yourself.
You aren't alone however, I personally experienced this and I've seen this in many young super technically strong developers.

I won't really answer to the situation you gave above because I just consider it cherry picking and a single datapoint is not useful.
Nor is data from a single individual.

That said, try a more challenging interview?
Like some of the others have said, why not try Google, Amazon, Facebook, Microsoft, etc.
They all have the super long interviews like I had and people with usually very strong technical skills.

They don't walk on water but the least technical people there are generally at a very high bar.
You'll quickly realize that technical ability is pretty quick and easy to acquire over the other skills you need to be a very senior developer

My 2c.
 

touch7

Active Member
Joined
Jan 25, 2016
Messages
64
@OP:
Frankly, you seem to hold yourself in very high esteem.
And you've already made up your mind, your posts just read like someone looking for validation...

You have basically no experience and no-one will take you seriously no matter how awesome you are.
I was also arrogant once, joined a company that only "hires the best" (1 code challenge, 2x1 hour phone screens and 6x1hour interviews later)
Even there I thought I was awesome for a long while.

Takes time to realize that it isn't about your technical skill.

We hire a lot of people at different skill levels.
Many of the developers we hire straight out of varsity have incredible high level of technical skills.

However being leader isn't about being right or being technically gifted.
You think you are the best and other people know it. (people aren't stupid)
Why would anyone follow someone that always thinks they are better than you.

More importantly, if you evaluate a solution immediately with the attitude of I am the best, you've already biased yourself.
You aren't alone however, I personally experienced this and I've seen this in many young super technically strong developers.

I won't really answer to the situation you gave above because I just consider it cherry picking and a single datapoint is not useful.
Nor is data from a single individual.

That said, try a more challenging interview?
Like some of the others have said, why not try Google, Amazon, Facebook, Microsoft, etc.
They all have the super long interviews like I had and people with usually very strong technical skills.

They don't walk on water but the least technical people there are generally at a very high bar.
You'll quickly realize that technical ability is pretty quick and easy to acquire over the other skills you need to be a very senior developer

My 2c.

Nice advice and point taken. And just to mention but I don't think I am the best and I am not looking to get the toughest interview. My experience so far has been with companies that wouldn't score very high on Joel's test. And I notice some people are even using statements out of context. By "South Africa doesn't have much to teach" I don't mean all companies but from the looks of things a large number of them (Not directed at you @Gnome). Some response here are good to read and some are just sarcastic.

Again I am not looking for the most challenging interview, I just don't want to be stagnant for the next who knows how many years. The "Dunning-Kruger Effect" can affect anyone, especially those with experience because there is a tendency to believe they have enough experience even though they might have been doing things wrong. Seems some people think I watched a few jquery and css3 videos and then said "I am ready". At the same time when I try elaborate more it is misinterpreted as a "ego" issue.

Going back to the "Dunning-Kruger Effect", maybe some people can give a rough list of things I might still need to learn. I think it would be a little interesting to see what's on these lists.
 

IndigoIdentity

Expert Member
Joined
May 10, 2010
Messages
1,964
Seems some people think I watched a few jquery and css3 videos and then said "I am ready". At the same time when I try elaborate more it is misinterpreted as a "ego" issue.

For what it is worth, I noticed this too and think quite a few people, like myself, had read your initial post and jumped to the gun. It would have been nice if you had elaborated a bit more to boot.

But fine I hear what you have to say but then it leaves me to guess. Leading up to the time that you started this job, where you were gaining experience with various technologies. What did you do in this time, what have you developed that you could show to a potential employer? Anything in active use today? Many something that people are making use of?

See the thing that I noticed is the lack of the word scalability in the blurps that you have given. It seems that you may be a little more book smart than street smart as the other guy might say.


As I see it, there is a grey area here and from this point onwards you have had mediocre experience with a company that you have said yourself does not seem to be doing things in a very progressive way.

I am just saying but by that point in their career, many of the web developers that I know who are around 6 years in experience have a whole lot to show (many things online and in use by various companies or running companies off of their ideas, etc) for the time that they have spent over the years that they have been gaining experience. This is their working experience so... Logically thinking, how did you get them skillz bro?
 

Oppiekoffie

Expert Member
Joined
Oct 25, 2016
Messages
1,468
Yeah but he's got 7 months of work experience, why would they want to commit to that without an understanding regarding his level of experience.

I see this as a risk for them, take on guy with 7 months exp, he totally sucks and then you have to put up with him and pay him for 3 months... Could be avoided with a 1 day demo right off the bat, yes or no?

EDIT: (not saying you totally suck at all just a possible scenario)

Its disgusting. Name and shame. give the guy a chance FFS! As for the OP. Build some scriopt in that deletes a whole lot of ****. If they tell you at the end of the day you're not coming back, your script will give them headaches the next few days.
 

rward

Senior Member
Joined
Oct 26, 2007
Messages
865
Its disgusting. Name and shame. give the guy a chance FFS! As for the OP. Build some scriopt in that deletes a whole lot of ****. If they tell you at the end of the day you're not coming back, your script will give them headaches the next few days.

YEAH!!

YOU SHOWED THEM HUH!!!!

YEAH YEAH!!!
 

Oppiekoffie

Expert Member
Joined
Oct 25, 2016
Messages
1,468
YEAH!!

YOU SHOWED THEM HUH!!!!

YEAH YEAH!!!

And then the OP goes, and shows at another company that he actually has potential, not on this company's one day challenge. So they lose out because of idiocy. I say , f ***** them.
 

Darko

Senior Member
Joined
Jul 9, 2008
Messages
627
...I am one of those guys who have only worked for about 7 months now but from what I can tell I am at the same skill level as guys with 5 to 6 years experience....

...The number of "frontend developers" that have worked for more than 4 years and don't know how to use either grunt, gulp or webpack is a lot. ...If you know javascript how do you not know how to use NodeJS?...

Maybe it's because I work at a consulting agency but South Africa has very little to teach. Or maybe it's because I take initiative on my own by watching conferences to keep updated and learn more that many don't do....

Wow. You must be a joy to work with.
 

rward

Senior Member
Joined
Oct 26, 2007
Messages
865
And then the OP goes, and shows at another company that he actually has potential, not on this company's one day challenge. So they lose out because of idiocy. I say , f ***** them.

Maybe OP isn't the sliced bread he thinks he is and the company finds that out on the 1 day thing and don't get stuck in a contract with him for the next x years.

Or maybe OP is the sliced bread he thinks he is and goes on the 1 day thing and finds out that he doesn't like the environment and stays with his current job, gets married, has 4 kids, builds a house with a large veranda and spends his retirement sipping J&T's on the porch while watching the sun set.

Or maybe OP is the sliced bread he thinks he is, goes to the 1 day thing, leaves a silly program that deletes all the companies information putting them back a couple of months/years and most of their employees out of work due to loss of revenue, stays with his current job, gets married, has 4 kids, builds a house with a large veranda and spends his looking after his kids as due to bad karma they all got some disabling disease.

Or maybe OP is the sliced bread he thinks he is and doesn't go to the 1 day thing but instead decides to go for something that he's actually interested in and that will bring him fulfillment in life.


But I guess that none of those answer OP's question of "Is this normal?"

Is it?
I'm unsure.

Should he be paid for the day?
yes.
 

SauRoNZA

Honorary Master
Joined
Jul 6, 2010
Messages
47,847
Maybe OP isn't the sliced bread he thinks he is and the company finds that out on the 1 day thing and don't get stuck in a contract with him for the next x years.

Or maybe OP is the sliced bread he thinks he is and goes on the 1 day thing and finds out that he doesn't like the environment and stays with his current job, gets married, has 4 kids, builds a house with a large veranda and spends his retirement sipping J&T's on the porch while watching the sun set.

Or maybe OP is the sliced bread he thinks he is, goes to the 1 day thing, leaves a silly program that deletes all the companies information putting them back a couple of months/years and most of their employees out of work due to loss of revenue, stays with his current job, gets married, has 4 kids, builds a house with a large veranda and spends his looking after his kids as due to bad karma they all got some disabling disease.

Or maybe OP is the sliced bread he thinks he is and doesn't go to the 1 day thing but instead decides to go for something that he's actually interested in and that will bring him fulfillment in life.


But I guess that none of those answer OP's question of "Is this normal?"

Is it?
I'm unsure.

Should he be paid for the day?
yes.

All I want to know is what is a J&T?
 

rward

Senior Member
Joined
Oct 26, 2007
Messages
865
All I want to know is what is a J&T?

:D

we_all_know_what_is_going_oh_here_by_sweetcandyelf-d8rf3pe.gif
 

_kabal_

Executive Member
Joined
Oct 24, 2005
Messages
5,922
This guy is sipping some real awesome cool aid. Come on guy he's awesome, he uses gulp and grunt. I wish i knew about those things. :erm:


pfft, gulp and grunt is so 1st quarter 2016 n00b

everyone knows that software development has nothing to do with developing good software, but rather the hottest newest bestest tech and tooling
 
Top