Conflict flares up in Gaza again

[scudsucker]

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I wonder how Seriously's '1' and 'shift' keys are holding up?


Certainly better than his 'arguments.'

 

[AfricanTech]

Uhm no. The responsibility lies with the IDF.

Hamas didn't kill the civilians, the IDF killed the civilians.

If they want to kill hamas militants then they need to go into Gaza as a ground force and fight an urban battle.

This of course will increase the IDF casualty rate enormously - but the civilian losses will dwindle.

Much safer for the IDF to use planes and tanks né.

Could Israel, in theory, bulldoze a 1 km wide strip along the Gaza border, plant tunnel detection devices (sound, vibration, earth scan, etc) and monitor/scan that 24/7 - tunnel activity detected; sink an insertion pipe - flood, gas, bomb, whatever <---- i.e. surgical strike at the source of the rocket attack problem?

Would certainly lessen/eliminate civilian casualties

 

[Seriously]

I wonder how Seriously's '1' and 'shift' keys are holding up?


Certainly better than his 'arguments.'

Sucking some scuds again? Nothing to say so you rather troll??????????????????????????
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[AfricanTech]

Saudi is actually a good example of a dictatorship,the Saud family is not even natively from Saudi yet they rule over the area with an iron fist backed fully by America.How come some dictatorships are accepted while others are not?Its all a political game which started at the fall of the Caliphate.

In the case of Iraq do you think they have a proper democracy or was it another case of America installing the people they want to rule the country?I honestly don't believe they have achieved anything close to a true democracy in Iraq,they have tried to make it resemble one though but don't be fooled its not.

Somewhat offtopic, but what are your views on the new ISIS Caliphate?

 

[hellfire]

Give the occupied territories back. Stop going against international law.

How about giving in to Hamas demands which are all economic and designed to make the Palestinian(mainly Gaza) people able to live a relatively normal life instead of the current huge prison they are living in.

Its not like Hamas have even asked for all their land back they are just asking for basic rights to grow economically.That would be a great start no?

Okay let's take Gaza as an example. IDF controlled Gaza from 1967 to 2005. Israel promoted settlements there and ostensibly there weren't plans to relinquish control.
Ariel Sharon unilaterally (that is, with no requirement for the Palestinians to do anything in return) dismantled the entire Israeli presence from Gaza.
What happened? Rockets.

So leaving these territories is obviously not the solution to stop the rockets.

 

[Seriously]

Could Israel, in theory, bulldoze a 1 km wide strip along the Gaza border, plant tunnel detection devices (sound, vibration, earth scan, etc) and monitor/scan that 24/7 - tunnel activity detected; sink an insertion pipe - flood, gas, bomb, whatever <---- i.e. surgical strike at the source of the rocket attack problem?

Would certainly lessen/eliminate civilian casualties

So what to do you do when rockets are fired from within the civil areas or buildings roofs, DELIBERATELY!
Look at the photos in this thread where Hamas vermin are holding a kid hostage while they fire at IDF soldiers!

 

[AfricanTech]

How about giving in to Hamas demands which are all economic and designed to make the Palestinian(mainly Gaza) people able to live a relatively normal life instead of the current huge prison they are living in.

Its not like Hamas have even asked for all their land back they are just asking for basic rights to grow economically.That would be a great start no?

Give the occupied territories back. Stop breaking international law.

Until the rockets stop, negotiation about anything will not start.

It's a lose-lose situation at the moment

 

[Spizz]

And all the while Israel continues to build more and more illegal settlements showing lack of any intent to ever give the Palestinians anything irrespective of whether Hamas exists or not.Hamas is just a convenient excuse for them.

On the face of it I tend to agree, they need to show good faith and get out of the West Bank for a start. Start building elsewhere and resettle those who live there already. Israel needs to really take the lead on this but with Hams raining rockets down on the 'burbs, it's not going to happen, is it? And you can't blame them.

So for this to happen, Hamas need to not exist. And that boat may have sailed with their election win in 2007 (?) and their ass whooping of Fatah. They are now entrenched in the fibre of Gaza and I fear it is too late unless the people actually rise up and have a revolution in their own backyards first.

Again, thanks to terror, intimidation and the climate of fear that see's some poor blokes being dragged to death behind a motorbike, that's also highly unlikely.

The first step, imho, is to stop aligning ourselves with either side and instead get behind all of the people and their suffering. Enough of these one sided demonstrations already. The first step is a huge political and international effort to isolate and destroy Hamas in the same way that Israel has been singled out. Maybe then Palestinians have a chance.

 

[AfricanTech]

So what to do you do when rockets are fired from within the civil areas or buildings roofs, DELIBERATELY!
Look at the photos in this thread where Hamas vermin are holding a kid hostage while they fire at IDF soldiers!

Iron Dome takes care of that.

The tunnels are what started the latest round; the tunnels are why the tanks and IDF are on the ground in Gaza.

Yes, Hamas are vermin - the IDF is no better with their current actions.

The Moral High Ground has a cost - that cost is blood and being prepared to take the pain, whether you like it or not - otherwise police forces around the world would simply mow down mobs rather than endure the violence perpetrated against them while they take cover behind shields.

As for those vermin holding that kid hostage, does the IDF not have world-class snipers?

Surgical strikes my ass!

 

[Seriously]

Okay let's take Gaza as an example. IDF controlled Gaza from 1967 to 2005. Israel promoted settlements there and ostensibly there weren't plans to relinquish control.
Ariel Sharon unilaterally (that is, with no requirement for the Palestinians to do anything in return) dismantled the entire Israeli presence from Gaza.
What happened? Rockets.

So leaving these territories is obviously not the solution to stop the rockets.

Exactly my point. What will happen if Gaza have open borders and international port? Another Buk system may suddenly appear from "nowhere" and shoot everything out of the sky!

 

[Mineer]

Okay let's take Gaza as an example. IDF controlled Gaza from 1967 to 2005. Israel promoted settlements there and ostensibly there weren't plans to relinquish control.
Ariel Sharon unilaterally (that is, with no requirement for the Palestinians to do anything in return) dismantled the entire Israeli presence from Gaza.
What happened? Rockets.

So leaving these territories is obviously not the solution to stop the rockets.

explain the bold part, and any evidence of the rest?

 

[daveza]

Maybe you missed something? The IDF ground force are already in Gaza and they already had soldiers that perished. Maybe focus a bit and get up to date with the news!

20 IDF killed.

400 Gaza civilians dead.

100 hamas dead.

This is not an infantry urban battle.

 

[Spizz]

Saudi is actually a good example of a dictatorship,the Saud family is not even natively from Saudi yet they rule over the area with an iron fist backed fully by America.How come some dictatorships are accepted while others are not?Its all a political game which started at the fall of the Caliphate.

In the case of Iraq do you think they have a proper democracy or was it another case of America installing the people they want to rule the country?I honestly don't believe they have achieved anything close to a true democracy in Iraq,they have tried to make it resemble one though but don't be fooled its not.

It never had one before, so what's the difference now? In simple terms, the US released Iraqi's from a brutal reign of state oppression and torture and paved the way for democracy. Unfortunately religion dictated otherwise.

Would people honestly prefer to live under the climate of horror Saddam made for them?

 

[Mineer]

http://www.dnaindia.com/world/repor...nsive-online-offensive-against-israel-2003471

In what is now being referred to as cyber revenge, the hacker group, on July 11 and 17, put out a call for #OpSaveGaza—a large scale coordinated cyber attack against the various arms of the Israeli government. "This is an urgent call for all hackers, human right organisations and activists all around the world to unite again and start campaign against Israhell, share what is really going on there, expose their terrorist activity to the world," it said.

 

[daveza]

So what is the solution? How do they stop the rockets?

An infantry-based street battle.

Is what they are doing now stopping the rockets ?

 

[Mineer]

It never had one before, so what's the difference now? In simple terms, the US released Iraqi's from a brutal reign of state oppression and torture and paved the way for democracy. Unfortunately religion dictated otherwise.

Would people honestly prefer to live under the climate of horror Saddam made for them?

What was iraq before the US invasion ?

 

[Seriously]

Iron Dome takes care of that.

The tunnels are what started the latest round; the tunnels are why the tanks and IDF are on the ground in Gaza.

So you reckon it's ok to have free terrorists as your neighbour as long as you have an iron dome system. So lets forget about the sirens and havoc when incoming missiles are detected. What about more advanced weapons that will obviously find it's way from Iran and elsewhere to wipe Israel and all infidels of the face of the earth as they need to do it for Allah?

Nice to dream!

 

[Spizz]

What was iraq before the US invasion ?

A dictatorship. What's your point?

 

[Seriously]

What was iraq before the US invasion ?

A mess, thats why the Russians left and Saddam believed he can conquer the world!

 

[daveza]

Could Israel, in theory, bulldoze a 1 km wide strip along the Gaza border,

I understand there is already a no-mans land.