Conflict flares up in Gaza again

[Spizz]

No takers ?

I agree with you, but really, what are the options? He has rockets dropping on Israel which Hamas will not stop, and he has no real options other than to go in and target the launch sites and weapons caches. I'd imagine they have a fairly good idea where they are after all. Loss of life is inevitable as is the breeding of hate, but again, what can he do but use an iron fist?

 

[daveza]

Wow .

http://mybroadband.co.za/vb/showthread.php/632333-Cover-Up!-Child-punched-by-teacher-dies/page2

Maybe he for a second if he can muster such incredible feat he can imagine what fear and horror crossed in that kids mind before he died.

I'm amazed you seem to have a heart.

What is the difference between this child and a Gaza one who watches parts of his leg bleed out a few feet away from his body ?

 

[daveza]

I agree with you, but really, what are the options? He has rockets dropping on Israel which Hamas will not stop, and he has no real options other than to go in and target the launch sites and weapons caches. I'd imagine they have a fairly good idea where they are after all. Loss of life is inevitable as is the breeding of hate, but again, what can he do but use an iron fist?

He can minimise civilian casualties by sending in infantry.

 

[Saba'a]

Hamas decided not to build a place to live but rather continue the fight. Regardless of history, Palestinians had a choice and rightly or wrongly decided to fight.

Hamas came into being because of Israel. Leaving people no options lead to extreme choices.

 

[Spizz]

You know that I would also not be granted citizenship?

Well I don't know, I've never actually thought about it. I know how the Bangladeshi's and Pakistani's are treated over there though so it's obviously not all about religion.

There are many contradictions which I can't even start to comprehend and I'm happy to say my own experience of Islam is a million miles removed from the violence we see in the middle east.

 

[Mila]

Hamas came into being because of Israel. Leaving people no options lead to extreme choices.

Hamas came into being because of themselves. They decided. They did it. They could have decided not to be formed.
Stop shifting blame.

 

[Spizz]

Hamas came into being because of Israel. Leaving people no options lead to extreme choices.

Well I'm not disputing the first part, but I disagree with the second. There are always choices and the Palestinians choice was either to work at creating a society for them and their children to live and flourish in, or fight. They chose to fight and these are the consequences.

 

[Crowley]

I should add that the 'lots' off Muslim states that are stable are that way because the laws are uncompromising and the non muslims follow them without question.

We offer them three choices: Islam; the dhimma contract – involving payment of Jizya; if they refuse this they will have nothing but the sword.

Source

No questions asked.

 

[Mila]

Well I'm not disputing the first part, but I disagree with the second. There are always choices and the Palestinians choice was either to work at creating a society for them and their children to live and flourish in, or fight. They chose to fight and these are the consequences.

+1000000

 

[Mila]

Source

No questions asked.

And they say Israel is an apartheid state? Lol.

 

[hellfire]

An infantry-based street battle.

Is what they are doing now stopping the rockets ?

Er... What do you think they are currently doing?

And what makes you think that human shields aren't used in that scenario?

 

[d0b33]

+1000000

Congrats! you've just endorsed war crimes.

 

[Spizz]

Congrats! you've just endorsed war crimes.

WTF are you on about? Where do you get war crimes in this.....

Well I'm not disputing the first part, but I disagree with the second. There are always choices and the Palestinians choice was either to work at creating a society for them and their children to live and flourish in, or fight. They chose to fight and these are the consequences.

That's the problem with all of this, too many people with agendas blinded by BS.

 

[d0b33]

WTF are you on about? Where do you get war crimes in this.....

Plenty, Israel commited a few today out of the many for the past 50 years.

 

[daveza]

Er... What do you think they are currently doing?

They aren't conducting street to street searches in the residential areas.

Clean one area and move to the next grid.

 

[Spizz]

Plenty, Israel commited a few today out of the many for the past 50 years.

Sense. You are making none.

 

[d0b33]

Sense. You are making none.

I'm not debating, just stating facts.

edit:
I find discussing this conflict pointless, it's clear Israel is the aggressor from the start.
On twitter I am following Gazans like a 16yr old girl stuck in her home for days, every tweet could be her last, the same for a young teacher, the shelling is close to her home and every tweet could be her last as well, and a medic, they're normal human beings wanting freedom. On the other sprectrum Israel is killing kids, commiting well documented war crimes, all with full support from the US.

NO DEBATE, ISRAEL IS A CRIMINAL STATE. PERIOD.

 

[Spizz]

I'm not debating, just stating facts.

Right you are, I get it.

Chocolate is made from seeds from the cacao tree.

 

[hellfire]

They aren't conducting street to street searches in the residential areas.

Clean one area and move to the next grid.

Over the last couple years I've debated for and against you on many topics. Never have I seen you display such a shallow analysis of a topic.

Urban warfare is never as simple as root out and destroy. Combatants are not honest on Hamas side (they'd be stupid if they were). They don't wear uniforms, purposefully. They hide their faces, purposefully. They are indistinguishable from the civilian population. They stash their guns, remove their masks and pretend to be civilians. Then shoot the soldier (easily identifiable in military fatigues) conducting the search in the back. They also shoot while hiding in a non combatant crowd, shoot from windows of buildings with a literal human shield between them and the window. If a soldier returns fire, civilians get killed or wounded. If a soldier doesn't return fire, he or his brother in arms gets killed or injured. It's a lose-lose for the IDF for avoiding civilians, once again. But at least they're destroying tunnels and weapons caches, something which is difficult if not impossible to do with an air raid (without very heavy collateral damage, anyway).

For some reason, you are irrationally biased against Israel. In your eyes they can do no right, or even attempt to be doing right.

 

[daveza]

Urban warfare is never as simple as root out and destroy. Combatants are not honest on Hamas side (they'd be stupid if they were). They don't wear uniforms, purposefully. They hide their faces, purposefully. They are indistinguishable from the civilian population. They stash their guns, remove their masks and pretend to be civilians. Then shoot the soldier (easily identifiable in military fatigues) conducting the search in the back. They also shoot while hiding in a non combatant crowd, shoot from windows of buildings with a literal human shield between them and the window. If a soldier returns fire, civilians get killed or wounded. If a soldier doesn't return fire, he or his brother in arms gets killed or injured. It's a lose-lose for the IDF for avoiding civilians, once again.

No argument there. It's guerilla tactics vs a traditional military force.

The same as the US vs the Taliban. the US vs the Somalians.

And they can't be beaten. Why does Israel think they are any different ?

For some reason, you are irrationally biased against Israel. In your eyes they can do no right, or even attempt to be doing right.

I am biased but not irrationally - the civilian deaths of 5 to 1 from a country who claims the moral high-ground makes it a no-brainer.