Conflict flares up in Gaza again

[Saba'a]

I have no doubt individual units in IDF have committed war crimes. In fact I'm sure even higher up the chain there are efforts cover up war crimes. Happens with every country involved in any conflict there has ever been. I'm surprised this is news to you.



Still doesn't prevent the Palestinians electing leaders into power who spend their efforts improving the lives of the average Palestinian. Even if they have to concede elements of their sovereignty and security to Israel for a significant period of time.

In Gaza in the last 9 years what has the Palestinian leadership done for them? What has Israel gained? In fact Palestinians rights have even be further curtailed since the occupation ended.

This is what you want? An independent state run by barbaric extremists? Where homosexuals are hung from cranes, where the only place in the M.E homosexuals have any rights are living under the constant threat of rocket attacks and suicide bombings.

See about why Israel has to gain:
"Nevertheless, there is a range of ulterior motives for Israel's denial of Palestinian statehood. If Palestine were declared a state, then immediately, Israel, by its present occupation of the West Bank will be in breach of the United Nations Charter. Palestine, as a state, could legitimately call upon the inherent right of individual or collective self-defense under Article 51 of the Charter to remove Israel from the occupied territories. Palestine, as a state, would be able to accede to international conventions and bring legal action against Israel on various matters. Palestine could accede to various international human rights instruments, such as the Covenant on Civil and Political Rights. It could even join the International Criminal Court and file cases against Israel for war crimes. It would be a tinderbox of a situation that is highly likely to precipitate conflict in the Middle East.[21]"

 

[LazyLion]

Guys, please knock it off with the personal attacks. There is no need to be calling posters a moron or an idiot every other post. I have asked the mods to come in and clean this up, but I fear they may rather just resort to closing the thread if you guys can't control yourselves.!

 

[Midnight_choir_drunk]

Of course. They don't like it because it contains content that damns their position. It's to be expected.

Gary what is my position other than there have been gross human rights violations from both sides ?

It is inadequate to only condemn the actions of Hamas. That position will never satiate and result in an appetite for peace. Wrong doing from all sides must be condemned. Trying to manufacture a mythology of the IDF being capable of no wrong and the Palestinians never capable of even a miniscule of sympathy in the face of gross human rights abuses is the type of thinking that perpetuates this conflict. Compromises need to be made by both sides. Tolerance needs to be amplified.

Mod or not Gary if you can't see the simple logic in what I am saying you are a fool.

 

[Alan]

So those that advocate Israel pullout of all 'occupied territory' and immediately granted the Palestinians a separate state Hamas would just disappear into thin air and Fatah transform into a party of politicians with scruples from corrupt incompetent plutocrats they are now.

Democracy, peace and serenity will descend over Gaza and the West Bank....

Miracles happen?

 

[LazyLion]

Gary what is my position other than there have been gross human rights violations from both sides ?

It is inadequate to only condemn the actions of Hamas. That position will never satiate and result in an appetite for peace. Wrong doing from all sides must be condemned. Trying to manufacture a mythology of the IDF being capable of no wrong and the Palestinians never capable of even a miniscule of sympathy in the face of gross human rights abuses is the type of thinking that perpetuates this conflict. Compromises need to be made by both sides. Tolerance needs to be amplified.
Mod or not Gary if you can't see the simple logic in what I am saying you are a fool.

Go and take a look at the Boko Haram thread I just posted.
That is a perfect example of what happens when Terror organisations like Hamas are not stopped dead in their tracks.
Look at Iraq right now. Thousands of Christians displaced due to ISIS.
When you let those facts sink in, then you begin to understand our intransigence.

 

[Seriously]

Gary what is my position other than there have been gross human rights violations from both sides ?

It is inadequate to only condemn the actions of Hamas. That position will never satiate and result in an appetite for peace. Wrong doing from all sides must be condemned. Trying to manufacture a mythology of the IDF being capable of no wrong and the Palestinians never capable of even a miniscule of sympathy in the face of gross human rights abuses is the type of thinking that perpetuates this conflict. Compromises need to be made by both sides. Tolerance needs to be amplified.

Mod or not Gary if you can't see the simple logic in what I am saying you are a fool.

Some more trolling as we can see!

 

[Saba'a]

Gary what is my position other than there have been gross human rights violations from both sides ?

It is inadequate to only condemn the actions of Hamas. That position will never satiate and result in an appetite for peace. Wrong doing from all sides must be condemned. Trying to manufacture a mythology of the IDF being capable of no wrong and the Palestinians never capable of even a miniscule of sympathy in the face of gross human rights abuses is the type of thinking that perpetuates this conflict. Compromises need to be made by both sides. Tolerance needs to be amplified.

Mod or not Gary if you can't see the simple logic in what I am saying you are a fool.

This is what frustrates me - only one side to blame according to the pro-israeli lobby. The victims guilty as they chose to be victims seems to be the logic.

 

[LazyLion]

Sorry Gary, they should just ban the trolling rooster again! Ban me for a few weeks as this pro Islamist extremists want to get this news thread locked. They hate the truth!

Ignore the poster and deal with the facts, deal with the content. Post links and articles and arguments to refute them.
If you are convinced they are a troll or a returning banned poster then simply ignore them.

 

[LazyLion]

So those that advocate Israel pullout of all 'occupied territory' and immediately granted the Palestinians a separate state Hamas would just disappear into thin air and Fatah transform into a party of politicians with scruples from corrupt incompetent plutocrats they are now.

Democracy, peace and serenity will descend over Gaza and the West Bank....

Miracles happen?

I doubt it. What is happening in Nigeria right now? Afghanistan? Pakistan? Iraq? Syria? Libya? etc...

 

[Seriously]

I doubt it. What is happening in Nigeria right now? Afghanistan? Pakistan? Iraq? Syria? Libya? etc...

What is the common denominator in all these regions again, please remind me?

 

[Saba'a]

You are the thumbsucking clone not me! You know your own intellect and stunned capabilities well I see!

Seriously indeed. Abolish Israel and create Palestine for all as a UN mandate with Israel as an international city and capital (bit difficult but can make another city capital if that poses a challenge as it may well do).

 

[LazyLion]

If I was a mod I would take it a personal insult to my intelligence to have you appealing for action and commenting on the wrongs of personal attacks.

Trust me, the mods are probably incredibly frustrated with this thread... and you are just as much to blame.
Please heed the same advice that I gave to Seriously above.
Deal with the facts and put your personal frustrations to bed.
There is no need to constantly be using insults.

Past experience shows that the mods will just close or delete this thread completely rather than try to clean up the mess that you guys have made over the past twenty pages.

 

[Midnight_choir_drunk]

Thats the problem neither rooster neither you have or have shown any intelligence. I am glad you know your limitations!

Ha ha ha. You do see the irony don't you ? I can't believe even you are so haplessly stupid to not.

 

[Saba'a]

Go and take a look at the Boko Haram thread I just posted.
That is a perfect example of what happens when Terror organisations like Hamas are not stopped dead in their tracks.
Look at Iraq right now. Thousands of Christians displaced due to ISIS.
When you let those facts sink in, then you begin to understand our intransigence.

"our"? Who is that? Anti-muslims? Anti-hamas?Anti-terrorists?

 

[Saba'a]

What is the common denominator in all these regions again, please remind me?

Not listing other countries I see.

 

[Midnight_choir_drunk]

Trust me, the mods are probably incredibly frustrated with this thread... and you are just as much to blame.
Please heed the same advice that I gave to Seriously above.
Deal with the facts and put your personal frustrations to bed.
There is no need to constantly be using insults.

Past experience shows that the mods will just close or delete this thread completely rather than try to clean up the mess that you guys have made over the past twenty pages.

I have made an appeal for consistant denouncing of civilian deaths from both sides. I can not think of anything less controversial.

Conflicts like this exist because people on both sides think their farts smell like roses. Isn't it enough now ?

 

[Looney]

Trust me, the mods are probably incredibly frustrated with this thread... and you are just as much to blame.
Please heed the same advice that I gave to Seriously above.
Deal with the facts and put your personal frustrations to bed.
There is no need to constantly be using insults.

Past experience shows that the mods will just close or delete this thread completely rather than try to clean up the mess that you guys have made over the past twenty pages.

Gary, I'd actually be very happy if the mods closed this thread now. It's gone way too far.

Everything there is to say has already been said. This thread is going around in circles.

Blame Hamas, no blame Israel, destroy Hamas, destroy Israel. It's all the same.

Now it's just about flinging insults at each other because we cannot agree on anything despite the facts.

 

[Lightscribe]

Ismail Haniyeh, the top Hamas leader in Gaza, signaled Monday that his group is sticking to its position.

He said the aim of the battle is to break the 7-year-old blockade of the Palestinian territory, which was imposed by Israel and Egypt after Hamas overran Gaza in 2007. Over the past year, Egypt has further tightened restrictions, driving Hamas into a deep financial crisis.

Haniyeh said in a televised speech that "we cannot go back, we cannot go back to the silent death" of the blockade.

He said all of Gaza's 1.7 million residents shared this demand.

"Gaza has decided to end the blockade by its blood and by its courage," he said. "This siege, this unjust siege, must be lifted."

Says it all. Kill Israelis, to make Israel and Egypt end a blockade, that was put in place, specifically to stop hamas' murdering.

 

[Saba'a]

Nevertheless, there is a range of ulterior motives for Israel's denial of Palestinian statehood. If Palestine were declared a state, then immediately, Israel, by its present occupation of the West Bank will be in breach of the United Nations Charter. Palestine, as a state, could legitimately call upon the inherent right of individual or collective self-defense under Article 51 of the Charter to remove Israel from the occupied territories. Palestine, as a state, would be able to accede to international conventions and bring legal action against Israel on various matters. Palestine could accede to various international human rights instruments, such as the Covenant on Civil and Political Rights. It could even join the International Criminal Court and file cases against Israel for war crimes. It would be a tinderbox of a situation that is highly likely to precipitate conflict in the Middle East.[21]

 

[LazyLion]

Gary, I'd actually be very happy if the mods closed this thread now. It's gone way too far.

Everything there is to say has already been said. This thread is going around in circles.

Blame Hamas, no blame Israel, destroy Hamas, destroy Israel. It's all the same.

Now it's just about flinging insults at each other because we cannot agree on anything despite the facts.

I'm going to close it temporarily until tomorrow.