Conflict flares up in Gaza again

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Mila

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I believe that most Palestinians feels that they are refugees in their own land and that the creation of Israel forced them leave an area where they had been for many generations


See this part I don't get. Israel weren't created. It has always been there.
Why don't Egypt give them more land to the other side?

And I do not blame Israel for rejecting a two state solution as If you are correct nobody wants Hamas. So Then Most Palestinians agree with Israel.
 

Mila

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You do realise that if the majority of a country are Muslim and choose Islamic law then that is democracy right? We may think it's barbaric but if the majority of the people choose it then what right do you have to tell them no? If you want there to be another form of government based on Western ideals against the will of the majority then you can't really call it democracy.

See now you are contradicting yourself. I thought the people didn't want that..

This is the problem with this. The goal posts are moved.

So do they want hamas or not?
 

Mila

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i have come to the conclusion that there are more die-hard zionist sympathisers in this country (and this forum), than there are in many pasts of Israel! :(

I guess the gross human rights abuses and atrocities of war being committed by the Zionist Occupation Army are totally cool with some people. even if Hamas stops the rocket fire, that will not change the abhorrent conditions which Israhell has imposed on the Palestinian's. and don't bother replying to this with further blind zionist rhetoric about the glorious state of Israel and its divine right to rule the land. There is no point trying to argue, so i am unsubscribing from this particular thread.


Perhaps one day, the good Jewish people will be able to rid their ranks of the lunatic zionists extremists. and when that day comes, I hope that the picture below is what we can see on a daily basis.

http://hmckzn.co.za/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/Israel-Palestine.jpg

Cry me a bloody river. We are just asking questions.
And If you can't answer it. Don't come and troll the thread that has finally come to a normal discussion.
 

ichigo

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This thread is 179 pages long, the roots of the problem go back to the formation of Israel in 1948 (I posted the link for you)

After which there where a number of wars where a large number of Palestinians fled the fighting or where driven out. The problem as it stands is that you have a huge number of Palestinians in the West Bank and Gaza, living in two tiny strips of land. In addition the West Bank has been eroded by illegal Jewish settlements over the last twenty years.

As far as I am aware Hamas want to form a Palestinian Islamic state, most likely incorporating the West Bank and Gaza. Israel has rejected a two state solution and continues to blockade Gaza due to security concerns. I believe that most Palestinians feels that they are refugees in their own land and that the creation of Israel forced them leave an area where they had been for many generations.

If you want to know anything else specific I will try to answer but there are more than enough links posted in the thread previously.

What you mean by eroded and where in the west bank are the illegal settlements as I only saw a nice farming community and nice small towns and stops when driving through to the Sea of Galilee and also to the Dead Sea.
 

Cray

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See this part I don't get. Israel weren't created. It has always been there.
Why don't Egypt give them more land to the other side?

And I do not blame Israel for rejecting a two state solution as If you are correct nobody wants Hamas. So Then Most Palestinians agree with Israel.

It wasn't always there though, the State of Israel as it is today was declared in 1948 . If you are saying that there where Jewish settlements in the area of land known as Palestine/Israel then yes, but you have to admit that there where just as many Palestinian settlements in that area too..
 

LazyLion

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i have come to the conclusion that there are more die-hard zionist sympathisers in this country (and this forum), than there are in many pasts of Israel! :(

I guess the gross human rights abuses and atrocities of war being committed by the Zionist Occupation Army are totally cool with some people. even if Hamas stops the rocket fire, that will not change the abhorrent conditions which Israhell has imposed on the Palestinian's. and don't bother replying to this with further blind zionist rhetoric about the glorious state of Israel and its divine right to rule the land. There is no point trying to argue, so i am unsubscribing from this particular thread.

Perhaps one day, the good Jewish people will be able to rid their ranks of the lunatic zionists extremists. and when that day comes, I hope that the picture below is what we can see on a daily basis.

http://hmckzn.co.za/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/Israel-Palestine.jpg

Cheers, MidnightWizard! ;)
 

Cray

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What you mean by eroded and where in the west bank are the illegal settlements as I only saw a nice farming community and nice small towns and stops when driving through to the Sea of Galilee and also to the Dead Sea.

The United Nations regards the West Bank as occupied territory, and an occupying army cannot build settlements in occupied territory.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_law_and_Israeli_settlements

http://opinionator.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/02/04/mapping-israeli-settlements-on-the-west-bank/
 

Mila

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It wasn't always there though, the State of Israel as it is today was declared in 1948 . If you are saying that there where Jewish settlements in the area of land known as Palestine/Israel then yes, but you have to admit that there where just as many Palestinian settlements in that area too..

Oke. I see your point.
So it was a Jewish area/ land / settlement, then Islam took over and then the British.

Why did the latest conflict started and who?
 

Cray

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See now you are contradicting yourself. I thought the people didn't want that..

This is the problem with this. The goal posts are moved.

So do they want hamas or not?

It was a different question, I don't know if the Palestinians truly want Hamas or not, I was just saying that you cannot dictate what form of democracy a group of people may choose. Hamas does not represent all of Islam - it's quite possible Palestinians may choose an Islamic state ruled by a different group. You are aware that that there are lots of different Islamic groups ?
 

LazyLion

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The United Nations regards the West Bank as occupied territory, and an occupying army cannot build settlements in occupied territory.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_law_and_Israeli_settlements

http://opinionator.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/02/04/mapping-israeli-settlements-on-the-west-bank/

Go back and read the entire thread.... pretty much everybody in here, including the pro-Israel posters have all said they do not agree with the building of settlements in the occupied territories.
 

Cray

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Oke. I see your point.
So it was a Jewish area/ land / settlement, then Islam took over and then the British.

Why did the latest conflict started and who?

This latest conflict was started with the kidnap and murder of three Israeli teens from the West Bank (which Hamas denied responsibility for). There was then a reprisal murder of a Palestinian teen. Then Hamas started firing rockets then all hell broke loose...:(
 

Naks

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Report from The Independent: Israel-Gaza conflict: The myth of Hamas’s human shields

some people are asking why the Gazans don't flee when warned:

Almost 85,000 people have been on the move, overwhelming the shelters set up by the UN by sheer numbers. Classrooms meant for 30 now hold up to 70, one typical example was the Girls Preparatory Secondary School, at a suburb of Beit Lahiya in the north, with a capacity of 800 which has taken in 1600. Homes of relatives, a traditional source of refuge, are also feeling the strain....

Gazans point out that the outside world remains largely unaware just how small and confined the place is – just 25 miles long and just a few miles wide. It is blocked in by closed borders to Israel in the north and east and Egypt in the south. There is no route out by the sea to the west with an Israeli naval blockade. Getting to travel abroad is an excruciatingly long process.
 

Cray

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Go back and read the entire thread.... pretty much everybody in here, including the pro-Israel posters have all said they do not agree with the building of settlements in the occupied territories.

It's no wonder this thread goes nowhere, YES I know, I was answering a specific question from ichigo

What you mean by eroded and where in the west bank are the illegal settlements as I only saw a nice farming community and nice small towns and stops when driving through to the Sea of Galilee and also to the Dead Sea.
 

LazyLion

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ISRAEL SOLDIER 'KIDNAPPED' BY HAMAS IS DEAD: ARMY

The Israeli army on Tuesday confirmed that a soldier who Hamas militants claimed they had kidnapped is dead and his body remains unaccounted for.

The army named the soldier, whose body is still missing, as Oron Shaul, two days after Hamas said they had kidnapped an Israeli soldier of the same name.

A spokeswoman said Israeli pathologists had identified 12 out of 13 soldiers killed in Gaza over the weekend but that 21-year-old Shaul's body was still unaccounted for.

Publication of the name suggested Hamas was likely to be holding the soldier's remains, although it was not clear if the entire body or only part of it was missing.

Israeli dog tags carry a soldier's name and his army number, and are designed to be broken in two, with half worn around the neck and the other half inserted into his boot to allow for identification in the event of death.

Shaul was part of a group of seven troops from the elite Golani unit who died in an attack on an armoured vehicle in Gaza.

A spokeswoman flatly denied any possibility that the soldier was alive.

"The identification process of six of the soldiers killed has been completed and confirmed. The efforts to identify the seventh soldier are ongoing and have yet to be determined," an army statement said.

The army refused to confirm or deny Hamas' claim on Sunday night, saying it was investigating, although Israel's ambassador to the UN Ron Prosor said the rumours of an abduction were "untrue".

Hamas militants have long sought to abduct soldiers to use as bargaining chips to obtain the release of Palestinian prisoners held by Israel.

In 2006, it captured conscript Gilad Shalit and held him for five years before freeing him in exchange for more than 1,000 Palestinian prisoners.

In the same year, Lebanon's Hezbollah also seized and killed two soldiers, triggering a devastating war with Israel, and later handing over their remains in a massive prisoner exchange.

The death of 13 soldiers on Sunday was the highest single-day death toll sustained by the Israeli army since the 2006 Lebanon war.


Source : Sapa-AFP /kd
Date : 22 Jul 2014 13:35
 

Mila

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Now the West bank Issue.

So 500 000 Jewish settlers has settled there and the Palestinians doesn't like this?

Can you show me on the map where that is?

We-map.png
 

yebocan

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Oke. I see your point.
So it was a Jewish area/ land / settlement, then Islam took over and then the British.

Why did the latest conflict started and who?

[video=youtube;-evIyrrjTTY]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-evIyrrjTTY[/video]

Kinda explains the whole land question...
 

Mila

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This latest conflict was started with the kidnap and murder of three Israeli teens from the West Bank (which Hamas denied responsibility for). There was then a reprisal murder of a Palestinian teen. Then Hamas started firing rockets then all hell broke loose...:(

Oh dear. Ok.
I like what is going on here, finally someone is answering my questions. :) with out calling me some sort of name :D
 

smb3

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What you mean by eroded and where in the west bank are the illegal settlements as I only saw a nice farming community and nice small towns and stops when driving through to the Sea of Galilee and also to the Dead Sea.

Eroded does not mean agricultural erosion ... if you look at the Palestinian map over the last 20 years (last 2 panels), it seems to have shrunk ... it is these deltas that are considered illegal settlements (and figuratively the erosion of Palestinian land)

http://fasttimesinpalestine.files.wordpress.com/2009/10/four-panel-map.jpg

The first link is from a pro-palestinian site, so some may have objections ... the same map is present in this link (hopefully it's considered more a objective site)

http://www.economist.com/blogs/democracyinamerica/2010/03/israel_and_palestine_0
 

Spizz

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What you mean by eroded and where in the west bank are the illegal settlements as I only saw a nice farming community and nice small towns and stops when driving through to the Sea of Galilee and also to the Dead Sea.

Lol, you don't need to go through the West Bank to go to the Dead Sea and the Sea of Galilee is nowhere near it. But you knew this of course ;)

OTOH, I was on an Israeli settlement near Hebron almost 25 years ago.
 

Cray

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