Conflict flares up in Gaza again

[Saba'a]

The one where the UN determined that 52 Palestinians had been killed, and maybe half were civilians?

Just an example:
"The present Israeli Prime Minister, Ariel Sharon, has long been involved in terror. In 1983, he was found indirectly, but personally, responsible for a civilian massacre by Lebanese militia in two Palestinian refugee camps. At least 800 innocent men, women and children were murdered in cold blood, most of them Palestinians, after Sharon ordered his men to allow the militiamen access to the camps."

 

[OrbitalDawn]

For those wiki lovers. Another article but from wikipedia

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lehi_(group)

Would you like more?

http://mepc.org/journal/middle-east-policy-archives/jewish-terrorism-israel

Your point being?

I never said there wasn't extremism. In fact I pointed it out repeatedly. It was a consequence of the rising nationalist sentiments among both the Jews and Arab Palestinians.

The Palestinians also had terrorist groups, like the Black Hand

 

[Saba'a]

Your point being?

I never said there wasn't extremism. In fact I pointed it out repeatedly. It was a consequence of the rising nationalist sentiments among both the Jews and Arab Palestinians.

The Palestinians also had terrorist groups, like the Black Hand

Point israel founded through terrorism and thus begets terrorism.

 

[OrbitalDawn]

Point israel founded through terrorism and thus begets terrorism.

Highly uncharitable reading of history to suggest fringe extremist groups were solely responsible for the founding of Israel. Actually no, not highly uncharitable. Downright wrong.

Besides, if that's your standard and logic then Palestine was also 'founded' in terrorism, so no wonder they beget terrorism, eh?

 

[Grant]

Well grant, one must remember that the balance of power in this conflict is not even remotely equal.

Anyway, how about the President of Palestine?

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4541732,00.html

sure, i was just wondering about the normal everyday folk in palestine protesting against the violence.
all i have seen so far is jewish people / israeli's (israel & elsewhere) protesting in the streets - i have not seen an palestinian folk protesting in the streets against the violence / attacks.

so essentially i am trying to find photo's of palestinians protesting against hamas's continual rocket fire into israel - there must be pictures / protests somewhere, surely.

 

[Saba'a]

Highly uncharitable reading of history to suggest fringe extremist groups were solely responsible for the founding of Israel. Actually no, not highly uncharitable. Downright wrong.

Besides, if that's your standard and logic then Palestine was also 'founded' in terrorism, so no wonder they beget terrorism, eh?

Fringe extremist groups yet most terrorist leaders ended up leaders of Israel?

 

[OrbitalDawn]

sure, i was just wondering about the normal everyday folk in palestine protesting against the violence.
all i have seen so far is jewish people / israeli's (israel & elsewhere) protesting in the streets - i have not seen an palestinian folk protesting in the streets against the violence / attacks.

so essentially i am trying to find photo's of palestinians protesting against hamas's continual rocket fire into israel - there must be pictures / protests somewhere, surely.

Maybe, maybe not.

I doubt Hamas would look kindly on that, though. They're thugs and bullies, not averse to murdering Palestinians for being 'collaborators', if they're perceived to be too soft. And then subsequently dragging them behind motorcycles.

 

[Saba'a]

sure, i was just wondering about the normal everyday folk in palestine protesting against the violence.
all i have seen so far is jewish people / israeli's (israel & elsewhere) protesting in the streets - i have not seen an palestinian folk protesting in the streets against the violence / attacks.

so essentially i am trying to find photo's of palestinians protesting against hamas's continual rocket fire into israel - there must be pictures / protests somewhere, surely.

I thought you said the rocket attacks are ineffectual i.e. simply symbolic. So why would you want people to get upset. If Israel settles and stops its illegal campaign then the rocket attacks would in any case stop.
What is root cause of rocket attacks? I think people figured out - solve the root cause and rocket attacks will disappear. On the other hand stopping rocket attacks will not solve problem of an illegal Israeli occupation.

 

[OrbitalDawn]

Fringe extremist groups yet most terrorist leaders ended up leaders of Israel?

Sounds like the ANC.

What 'most' are you talking about? Do you have actual figures?

Irgun were branded a terrorist organisation by the Zionist Congress and the Jewish Agency, as well as the British.

You know one of the founders of Irgun won a Nobel Peace Prize for the peace treaty with Egypt in 1979?

 

[OrbitalDawn]

I thought you said the rocket attacks are ineffectual i.e. simply symbolic. So why would you want people to get upset. If Israel settles and stops its illegal campaign then the rocket attacks would in any case stop.
What is root cause of rocket attacks? I think people figured out - solve the root cause and rocket attacks will disappear. On the other hand stopping rocket attacks will not solve problem of an illegal Israeli occupation.

Would it? You know this how? Hamas' charter calls for the "obliteration of Israel", in addition to rife anti-Semitism.

 

[Saba'a]

Sounds like the ANC.

What 'most' are you talking about? Do you have actual figures?

Irgun were branded a terrorist organisation by the Zionist Congress and the Jewish Agency, as well as the British.

You know one of the founders of Irgun won a Nobel Peace Prize for the peace treaty with Egypt in 1979?

most - have you read any of the articles?
Was ANC a terrorist group? I thought they were freedom fighters?
Egypt - Sadat was a dictator and Israel occupied Gaza so what peace was gained? For palestinians or Sadat?
Jimmy Carter also won a Nobel prize and labelled Israel an apartheid state.

 

[Saba'a]

Would it? You know this how? Hamas' charter calls for the "obliteration of Israel", in addition to rife anti-Semitism.

Do u think they would get support if Israel treated palestinians justly?

 

[Grant]

what is the difference between zionism & islamism.
my knowledge is sketchy regards both - wiki serves only to confuse me further on the issue

it would seem to me both have similar religious & cultural ambitions for their respective peoples

Must admit I dont know , if they similar in approach then I would say they both wrong , I will look deeper into it and get back to you

ok - little steps

it would appear the main difference between the two is that islamism refers more to the return to traditional islamic values (more idealogical), whereas zionism is more focused around the physical "homeland" as opposed to idealogical values, obviously also idealogical, but the physical is a major aspect.

 

[Grant]

I thought you said the rocket attacks are ineffectual i.e. simply symbolic. So why would you want people to get upset.

????
i said nothing of the sort
you may be getting me mixed up with someone else

 

[marine1]

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=10151366572293273&fref=nf

 

[marine1]

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=803360656353473&fref=nf

 

[marine1]

#freeIsrael

 

[Saba'a]

????
i said nothing of the sort
you may be getting me mixed up with someone else

Sorry. So many posts. To be honest I feel that its pretty pointless trying to point out the sad and silly violence. I suppose people on both sides are so radicalized that the bulk who just want to live their lives in peace will be prevented from reaching a just peace.

 

[OrbitalDawn]

most - have you read any of the articles?
Was ANC a terrorist group? I thought they were freedom fighters?
Egypt - Sadat was a dictator and Israel occupied Gaza so what peace was gained? For palestinians or Sadat?
Jimmy Carter also won a Nobel prize and labelled Israel an apartheid state.

I didn't bother after the first one you posted started with a lie.

Yeah, the ANC were terrorists. They also became government leaders. Guess the new South Africa was also founded on terrorism, eh?

Sadat a dictator? You mean the guy that helped overthrow the corrupt monarchy of Farouk? The guy that re-instituted the multi-party system? Peace was gained between Israel and Egypt, who had been at war since 1948. He was also assassinated by Islamist nutjobs. Those peace loving fellows.

And you haven't addressed Palestine's own terrorist past, if we're applying the same standard and logic as you did with Israel.

Do u think they would get support if Israel treated palestinians justly?

Try reading the thread and my posts in it. I deat with this specific issue repeatedly.

 

[tRoN]

sure, i was just wondering about the normal everyday folk in palestine protesting against the violence.
all i have seen so far is jewish people / israeli's (israel & elsewhere) protesting in the streets - i have not seen an palestinian folk protesting in the streets against the violence / attacks.

so essentially i am trying to find photo's of palestinians protesting against hamas's continual rocket fire into israel - there must be pictures / protests somewhere, surely.

Dude! They have been protesting for 67 years already.

And it started off peacefully until the Israelis got ugly

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Intifada