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Conflict flares up in Gaza again
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OrbitalDawn
Ulysses Everett McGill
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That's what the reinstatement of previous borders means. It just can't be done overnight, but there has to be a firm commitment to removing them.
Nerfherder
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Fair enough... but what do you do with the people that have been living and farming there for the last 60 years ?
I don't think a reshuffle will help anything... will basically have the same problem as SA then.
True great time to vacation but believe me I wont be welcomed
hellfire
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So let's say Israel is prepared to go back to the (indefensible) 1948 borders. For the definition of those borders, I assume you mean those after the War of Independence, but before the 1967 Six Day War.
Will they give the West Bank and Jerusalem to Jordan, Gaza to Egypt and the Golan to Syria? Those were the previous holders of those territories?
Israel has demonstrated willingness to give land for peace. They've done it successfully with the Egyptians and the Jordanians. They offered it on multiple occasions to the Palestinians and even unilaterally withdrawn to give them territory. In return they have NOT received recognition or an end to hostilities in any manner. In fact; the opposite. Your solution won't work, and it's not because Israel is an unwilling peace partner.
Spizz
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True great time to vacation but believe me I wont be welcomed
Lol, I can imagine you being like Danny Glover wanting to emigrate to SA in Lethal Weapon
Man, I'd love to just go and eat good stuff for a week. Love the fusion of cuisine there, especially the falafel shops.
Buy hey, sorry to go OT and interrupt the arguing. Carry on folks....
OrbitalDawn
Ulysses Everett McGill
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This doesn't really concern those countries anymore. It's between Israel and the Palestinians.
Which borders do you think make
eehellfire said:
Giving land back to Egypt and Jordan that they took in a war, hardly the pinnacle of altruistic behaviour. Why would they have wanted to keep those areas anyway?
From what I recall there was a lot of Fatah-Hamas infighting at the time.
What do you think should happen?
hellfire
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A negotiated peace agreement with no preconceptions on borders from either side.
These negotiations should be face to face, with the only precondition that both sides recognise each other's right to exist.
LazyLion
King of de Jungle
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ISRAEL WARNS GAZANS TO FLEE AS CAMPAIGN INTENSIFIES
Israel urged 100,000 Gazans to flee their homes on Wednesday, but the warning was largely ignored despite an intensification of the military's nine-day campaign after Hamas snubbed a ceasefire effort.
As the punishing Israeli operation resumed pace, Palestinian leader Mahmud Abbas was to travel to Egypt and Turkey in search of regional support for an immediate end to the fighting after an attempt at an Egyptian-brokered truce collapsed.
So far, Israel's campaign, now in its ninth day, has killed 208 Palestinians, with a Gaza-based rights group saying over 80 percent of them were civilians.
In the same period, militants have fired more than 1,200 rockets at Israel, which on Tuesday claimed their first Israeli life.
Overnight, warplanes struck about 40 sites across Gaza, among them political targets, as militants also kept up their fire on Israel's coastal plain, with four rockets shot down over metropolitan Tel Aviv.
The air force also dropped flyers warning 100,000 in northeastern Gaza Strip to evacuate their homes ahead of an air campaign targeting "terror sites and operatives" in Zeitun and Shejaiya, two flashpoint districts east of Gaza City.
Anm identical message was sent to Beit Lahiya in the north, echoing a similar army warning on Sunday, when more than 17,000 residents of the north fled for their lives, most seeking refuge in UN-run schools.
As well as the flyers, residents also received texts and pre-recorded phone messages urging them to evacuate and not return until further notice.
"We issued a warning to the people to leave instead of becoming victims of the policy of Hamas which tries to protect their rockets with civilians," Israeli President Shimon Peres said at a joint news conference with Italian Foreign Minister Federica Mogherini.
"We're trying to defend our own people, as we must, and we're also trying hard not to hit innocent people in Gaza."
But the warnings did not have any immediate effect, with only limited numbers seen leaving, as children picked up the flyers and played with them, an AFP correspondent said.
"They dropped these bits of paper from planes telling people to leave. Where should we go?" asked Faisal Hassan, a father of five who lives in Zeitun.
"I will not leave my house, whatever happens."
Hamas told residents to ignore the warnings, saying there was "no need to worry".
"This is part of the psychological war, intended to disrupt the domestic front," it said in a statement.
Israel's Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu vowed to step up the military campaign after Hamas dismissed an Egyptian ceasefire proposal, firing scores of rockets over the border despite the army holding its fire for six hours.
"This would have been better resolved diplomatically... but Hamas leaves us no choice but to expand and intensify the campaign against it," he said.
Although Israel would prefer a truce to putting boots on the ground, the security cabinet met overnight to discuss the possibility of a limited ground operation, army radio reported, saying ministers had approved plans to destroy Hamas's network of tunnels.
They also discussed the possibility of a limited ground incursion which would not initially involve entering towns of villages, it said.
"Israel has no option but to continue the operation and intensify it," former national security adviser Giora Eiland told army radio.
"The main dilemma is over a ground operation," he said, explaining that only a ground operation could inflict "real destruction" on Hamas's network of underground tunnels.
"It looks like we're rolling in that direction, since air strikes have their limitations."
Meanwhile, the Palestinian president was expected to arrive in Cairo during the evening for talks over a ceasefire with the Egyptian leadership. He was due to travel to Turkey on a similar mission on Thursday, officials said.
Hamas said it had rejected the Cairo truce efforts because it had not been included in the discussions, but top official Mussa Abu Marzuq said the Islamist movement was still in discussions about a possible ceasefire.
Source : Sapa-AFP /mr
Date : 16 Jul 2014 14:26
Israel urged 100,000 Gazans to flee their homes on Wednesday, but the warning was largely ignored despite an intensification of the military's nine-day campaign after Hamas snubbed a ceasefire effort.
As the punishing Israeli operation resumed pace, Palestinian leader Mahmud Abbas was to travel to Egypt and Turkey in search of regional support for an immediate end to the fighting after an attempt at an Egyptian-brokered truce collapsed.
So far, Israel's campaign, now in its ninth day, has killed 208 Palestinians, with a Gaza-based rights group saying over 80 percent of them were civilians.
In the same period, militants have fired more than 1,200 rockets at Israel, which on Tuesday claimed their first Israeli life.
Overnight, warplanes struck about 40 sites across Gaza, among them political targets, as militants also kept up their fire on Israel's coastal plain, with four rockets shot down over metropolitan Tel Aviv.
The air force also dropped flyers warning 100,000 in northeastern Gaza Strip to evacuate their homes ahead of an air campaign targeting "terror sites and operatives" in Zeitun and Shejaiya, two flashpoint districts east of Gaza City.
Anm identical message was sent to Beit Lahiya in the north, echoing a similar army warning on Sunday, when more than 17,000 residents of the north fled for their lives, most seeking refuge in UN-run schools.
As well as the flyers, residents also received texts and pre-recorded phone messages urging them to evacuate and not return until further notice.
"We issued a warning to the people to leave instead of becoming victims of the policy of Hamas which tries to protect their rockets with civilians," Israeli President Shimon Peres said at a joint news conference with Italian Foreign Minister Federica Mogherini.
"We're trying to defend our own people, as we must, and we're also trying hard not to hit innocent people in Gaza."
But the warnings did not have any immediate effect, with only limited numbers seen leaving, as children picked up the flyers and played with them, an AFP correspondent said.
"They dropped these bits of paper from planes telling people to leave. Where should we go?" asked Faisal Hassan, a father of five who lives in Zeitun.
"I will not leave my house, whatever happens."
Hamas told residents to ignore the warnings, saying there was "no need to worry".
"This is part of the psychological war, intended to disrupt the domestic front," it said in a statement.
Israel's Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu vowed to step up the military campaign after Hamas dismissed an Egyptian ceasefire proposal, firing scores of rockets over the border despite the army holding its fire for six hours.
"This would have been better resolved diplomatically... but Hamas leaves us no choice but to expand and intensify the campaign against it," he said.
Although Israel would prefer a truce to putting boots on the ground, the security cabinet met overnight to discuss the possibility of a limited ground operation, army radio reported, saying ministers had approved plans to destroy Hamas's network of tunnels.
They also discussed the possibility of a limited ground incursion which would not initially involve entering towns of villages, it said.
"Israel has no option but to continue the operation and intensify it," former national security adviser Giora Eiland told army radio.
"The main dilemma is over a ground operation," he said, explaining that only a ground operation could inflict "real destruction" on Hamas's network of underground tunnels.
"It looks like we're rolling in that direction, since air strikes have their limitations."
Meanwhile, the Palestinian president was expected to arrive in Cairo during the evening for talks over a ceasefire with the Egyptian leadership. He was due to travel to Turkey on a similar mission on Thursday, officials said.
Hamas said it had rejected the Cairo truce efforts because it had not been included in the discussions, but top official Mussa Abu Marzuq said the Islamist movement was still in discussions about a possible ceasefire.
Source : Sapa-AFP /mr
Date : 16 Jul 2014 14:26
MickeyD
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Just watched one of the "small bang, big bang" bombing on SkyNews - camera was about a block away.
The small bang hit a building with a minor charge detonating. According to IDF there should be a minute or so until the big bang.
Well, unless they manipulated the video, there was no minute gap... 30 seconds at the most.
And then the building was destroyed with a moerse big bang.
Maybe the IDF need to check their clocks and watches!
The small bang hit a building with a minor charge detonating. According to IDF there should be a minute or so until the big bang.
Well, unless they manipulated the video, there was no minute gap... 30 seconds at the most.
And then the building was destroyed with a moerse big bang.
Maybe the IDF need to check their clocks and watches!
LazyLion
King of de Jungle
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FRANCE PROPOSES EU OBSERVERS AT GAZA-ISRAEL CROSSINGS
France said Wednesday the European Union could set up observer missions at border crossings between the Gaza Strip and Israel to try to encourage a lasting truce between the two sides.
The proposal by Foreign Minister Laurent Fabius came as an Israeli air campaign on Gaza that has killed 208 people entered its ninth day after a failed ceasefire effort.
"Europe... is ready to do things, particularly through what we call EUBAM, which are forces that could monitor movements between Gaza and Israel," he told French radio.
The EU had implemented a similar operation in 2005 at the Rafah crossing point between Gaza and Egypt.
In cooperation with Palestinian and Israeli officials, the mission of 70 European police officers monitored movements of people, goods and vehicles at the Rafah crossing, Gaza's only window to the outside world that bypasses Israel.
But it was suspended in June 2007 after Hamas seized power in the Gaza Strip.
"Arab countries have said they support this, and we would also need the agreement of the five permanent members of the (UN) Security Council," Fabius said.
The issue could be discussed this week in Brussels.
So far, the Israeli air campaign has killed 207 Palestinians, while Gaza militant groups have fired a barrage of more than 1,200 rockets at Israel, which on Tuesday claimed its first Israeli life.
Source : Sapa-AFP /mr
Date : 16 Jul 2014 14:17
France said Wednesday the European Union could set up observer missions at border crossings between the Gaza Strip and Israel to try to encourage a lasting truce between the two sides.
The proposal by Foreign Minister Laurent Fabius came as an Israeli air campaign on Gaza that has killed 208 people entered its ninth day after a failed ceasefire effort.
"Europe... is ready to do things, particularly through what we call EUBAM, which are forces that could monitor movements between Gaza and Israel," he told French radio.
The EU had implemented a similar operation in 2005 at the Rafah crossing point between Gaza and Egypt.
In cooperation with Palestinian and Israeli officials, the mission of 70 European police officers monitored movements of people, goods and vehicles at the Rafah crossing, Gaza's only window to the outside world that bypasses Israel.
But it was suspended in June 2007 after Hamas seized power in the Gaza Strip.
"Arab countries have said they support this, and we would also need the agreement of the five permanent members of the (UN) Security Council," Fabius said.
The issue could be discussed this week in Brussels.
So far, the Israeli air campaign has killed 207 Palestinians, while Gaza militant groups have fired a barrage of more than 1,200 rockets at Israel, which on Tuesday claimed its first Israeli life.
Source : Sapa-AFP /mr
Date : 16 Jul 2014 14:17
OrbitalDawn
Ulysses Everett McGill
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Hmm, good idea.
daveza
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Not to worry - seems a solution is at hand.
http://www.iol.co.za/news/politics/eff-to-shake-up-palestine-1.1720699#.U8Z7ePmSx8E
http://www.iol.co.za/news/politics/eff-to-shake-up-palestine-1.1720699#.U8Z7ePmSx8E
This has nothing to do with the Palestinians. It only concerns Israel.
Wow...it's great being able to selectively ignore stuff. Makes decision making so much easier!
Israel gained control, during a defensive war, of land from which the invasions were launched from. They other countries are lucky that they got it back.
One word as to why they would want to keep the land: OIL.
d0b33
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https://twitter.com/IssamSammour/status/489392207523090432
https://twitter.com/intifada/status/489392017223745536
https://twitter.com/jncatron/status/489391749341519872
https://twitter.com/MyNews24/status/489390883499171840
https://twitter.com/rob_louw/status/489349181740695552
https://twitter.com/Sihaam4/status/489376688720334848
https://twitter.com/guardian/status/489390251522400256
https://twitter.com/haaretzcom/status/489386386676396032
https://twitter.com/sabbah/status/489385929568960512
https://twitter.com/BahmanKalbasi/status/489161422010863616
Oh PLEEEEASE go to Gaza!
If anything, just to do an inspection of a Hamas weapons cache. Just ignore the thump on the roof of the building...it's probably nothing.
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