Conflict flares up in Gaza again

[Greylor]

Way to go Israel.



And killed about 40 militants.

Bravo.

The infrastructure, weapons, ammunition and launch sites are the primary targets.

 

[OrbitalDawn]

Aye, that would be good.

The problem is that the entire process can be derailed by something as ridiculous as the walkway to some mosque or temple somewhere.

The whole place is like a raw exposed nerve. The moment a gust of wind blows over it the whole region goes Hulk on itself.

Ya, apt metaphor. Prime example of how religion can poison something.

 

[Seriously]

Way to go Israel.



And killed about 40 militants.

Bravo.

So think about it. 20% hamas terrorist hiding behind 80% civilians!


Acceptable collateral in this case!

 

[Saba'a]

So think about it. 20% hamas terrorist hiding behind 80% civilians!


Acceptable collateral in this case!

And the term nutjob comes to mind.

 

[Saba'a]

Israeli supreme court! Will post link later.

Sorry had a better one but this quickest I could get on phone

http://www.seamac.org/EqualRights.htm

 

[MickeyD]

Hamas Made Israel a 'Truce Offer' That It Can Only Refuse

Following Hamas' rejection of a ceasefire proposal by Egypt, the group may have announced its own terms for a 10-year truce, replete with conditions that Israel will never be willing to meet.

Early reports are signaling that Hamas, along with the Gaza terrorist group Islamic Jihad, are proposing a cessation of hostilities in exchange for the release of Palestinian prisoners who were initially released in the prisoner exchange that freed kidnapped Israeli soldier Gilad Shalit in 2011. A number of the men were rearrested during Israel's operation to find the men who abducted and killed three Israeli teenagers in the West Bank last month.

The Times of Israel reports some of the other demands:

[Hamas also] demands that all crossings to the Gaza Strip be opened, and that the Rafah crossing to Egypt be secured by UN forces. It calls for an airport to be established in the Strip, that fishing areas be expanded, and that Israeli aircraft alter their flight routes such that none fly over the coastal enclave.

The Israeli site Arutz Sheva adds:

There is no official confirmation of the offer and it is being greeted with skepticism, as more of a trial balloon than an actual offer.

It seems fair to say that few of these demands will be taken seriously by Israel. Let's have a look at them.

Context

As we noted yesterday, Hamas dismissed Egypt's ceasefire proposal out of hand, reportedly in objection to having been left out of the negotiations. The more likely reason though is that the Egyptian proposal contained no incentives that would allow the terrorist group to declare some kind of public relations victory for its battle with Israel.

Release of Palestinian prisoners

So long as the killers of the three teenage Israelis are on the loose, it seems highly unlikely that Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu will be politically able or personally willing to make this concession.

But this does broach an interesting possibility. Were Hamas or the Palestinian Authority to find and/or turn in the men responsible, it would change all the political calculations here. Don't count on it.

UN observers at border crossings

The United Nations doesn't have a sterling reputation when it comes to enforcing conditions of a ceasefire. Following the end of Israel's 2006 war with Hezbollah (which has many parallels to the Gaza conflicts of the past few years), the set up a force called UNIFIL (United Nations Interim Force In Lebanon), which was meant to enforce the ceasefire and keep Hezbollah from rearming. According to Israel and some press reports, Hezbollah's stockpiling of rockets from Iran resumed almost immediately.

Hoping to move things along, France is reportedly proposing that EU observers man the border crossings between Israel and Gaza. Does the EU have more credibility than the UN? Probably.

Easing the blockade of Gaza

The other demands set forth by Hamas and Islamic Jihad speak to Israel's much-maligned blockade of Gaza, which is meant to keep the terrorist groups from rearming. The blockade also makes the importing of material goods for building a Palestinian economy extremely difficult.

Previous ceasefires have included provisions that would limit the scope of Israel's blockade, however, given the number of rockets fired into Israel from Gaza (particularly in the direction of population centers like Tel Aviv) as well as the number of rockets reportedly destroyed by Israeli airstrikes, the easing of the blockade against Gaza seems like a nonstarter...for now.

With enough international pressure (which doesn't seem to be coming quite as forcefully as it has in conflicts past), this may change.

What's next?

On Tuesday, the Israeli cabinet approved the (Hamas-rejected) Egyptian ceasefire and held back on striking Gaza for six hours. One Israeli was reportedly killed as Hamas continued firing rockets. Following the end of the Israeli pause, Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu vowed to strike with even greater intensity. On the domestic front, he is facing pressure from some politicians on the right to order a ground invasion of Gaza.

With the 2009 conflict between Israel and Hamas in mind, the international community is working hard to make sure what would be a destructive and deadly ground invasion stays in the hypothetical. (Egypt is said to be mediating another truce.)

Meanwhile, until a palatable proposal emerges or an external factor forces the hand of one of the sides, the violence will continue. In the ninth of fighting, the Palestinian death toll passed 200 and rockets continue to rain down on Israeli cities.

http://www.thewire.com/global/2014/...a-truce-offer-that-it-can-only-refuse/374523/

 

[Seriously]

And the term nutjob comes to mind.

Not as nuts as the Islamic idiots defending the Islamic terrorists in gaza.

 

[Seriously]

http://www.thewire.com/global/2014/...a-truce-offer-that-it-can-only-refuse/374523/

A ten year "truce" with 10 years of "virgin" bombers! Remember the last "truce"? Israel should open all border posts with the Arab nations and then lets see what happens while they close their own border with a Berlin wall of note!

 

[OrbitalDawn]

Sorry had a better one but this quickest I could get on phone

http://www.seamac.org/EqualRights.htm

You know Apartheid applied to citizens of South Africa, right?

The Palestinians in this situation are not citizens of Israel. No country on earth extends citizens rights to non-citizens. The Arab Israeli citizens have the same rights as Jewish Israeli citizens.

They serve in the Knesset, in the Army (there are Arab generals) and there have been two Supreme Court judges (one currently) that are Arabs.

And look at this list he compiled:

- No right of free speech, assembly or movement
- Arrest and imprisonment without charge or trial
- Torture
- House searches without warrant
- Assassination, extra-judicial murder

That's exactly what Hamas is doing, who controls Gaza, by the way.

 

[daveza]

Not as nuts as the Islamic idiots defending the Islamic terrorists in gaza.

I don't see anyone defending terrorists.

I do see someone condoning the death of children.

 

[Saba'a]

You know Apartheid applied to citizens of South Africa, right?

The Palestinians in this situation are not citizens of Israel. No country on earth extends citizens rights to non-citizens. The Arab Israeli citizens have the same rights as Jewish Israeli citizens.

They serve in the Knesset, in the Army (there are Arab generals) and there have been two Supreme Court judges (one currently) that are Arabs.

And look at this list he compiled:

- No right of free speech, assembly or movement
- Arrest and imprisonment without charge or trial
- Torture
- House searches without warrant
- Assassination, extra-judicial murder

That's exactly what Hamas is doing, who controls Gaza, by the way.

Direct rebuttal
http://www.latimes.com/opinion/op-ed/la-oe-makdisi-israel-apartheid-20140518-story.html

Their country but you right just like apartheid they stay in bantustans/homelands and get denied citizenship.

 

[daveza]

The infrastructure, weapons, ammunition and launch sites are the primary targets.

What's the point of that.

Hamas militants make the weapons and launch sites are anywhere they like. Leave the militants alive and they will just replenish their stock.

 

[daveza]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/07/16/gaza-children-killed_n_5591281.html

GAZA, July 16 (Reuters) - Four Palestinian children were killed and one was critically wounded on a Gaza beach on Wednesday by a shell fired by an Israeli naval gunboat, a Palestinian health official said.

Asked about the incident, an Israeli military spokesman in Tel Aviv said he was checking the report.

"The kids were playing football on the beach. They were all ... under the age of 15," said Ahmed Abu Hassera, 22.

"When the first shell hit the land, they ran away but another shell hit them all," said Abu Hassera, whose shirt was stained with blood.

"It looked as if the shells were chasing them," he told Reuters.

Ashraf al-Qidra, spokesman for the Gaza Health Ministry, said four of the youngsters were killed and a fifth youth was in critical condition. "This is a cowardly crime," he said.

Bravo Israel.

 

[Saba'a]

What's the point of that.

Hamas militants make the weapons and launch sites are anywhere they like. Leave the militants alive and they will just replenish their stock.

Nope that would require the Zionists (Israel as a state for jews supporter) to address the root cause. This way they ensure the Palestinians become extremists and wont want to accept a peace. That way Israel can continue to occupy lands based on "security" needs.
Hamas as well like the situation because it makes them relevant, otherwise their political competition PLO or some new party might get support.
As long as this violence benefits the main players, innocent people on both sides will pay the price.

 

[Spizz]

Direct rebuttal
http://www.latimes.com/opinion/op-ed/la-oe-makdisi-israel-apartheid-20140518-story.html

Their country but you right just like apartheid they stay in bantustans/homelands and get denied citizenship.

Interesting read athough the author quite often talks about non Israeli's. But like this thread, there's another side and as luck would have it, there was a link to this article with quite a few facts. Pop quiz time

http://www.latimes.com/opinion/op-ed/la-oe-0112-siegel-israel-boycott-apartheid-20140112-story.html

 

[Grant]

ISRAEL WARNS GAZANS TO FLEE AS CAMPAIGN INTENSIFIES



Hamas told residents to ignore the warnings, saying there was "no need to worry".

wtf ???

 

[Saba'a]

I don't understand your description/definition. If you're an Israeli Arab (Arab possessing Israeli citizenship) then how are you a Palestinian citizen?

Sorry
1. I prefer the term palestine vs israel as I dont recognise the state of israel unless it accepts the indigeneous inhabitants
2. "Israeli" arabs and palestinians same. Some managed to stay (btw would be interesting to see % muslim vs christian israeli arabs) and others driven out. I regard the refugees as "Israeli "citizens placed in a bantustan/homeland so
Hope it helps. Bit difficult in the sense that Israel exists de facto and that acceptance of a palestinian state by PLO has legitimised these bantustans.

Hope is that we can at least compromise on an Israel for all inhabitants and not just a minority.

Not directly similar but reminds one of the tricameral system of apartheid. African blacks had to go to bantustan homelands if they wanted democracy and the Indians and Coloureds could vote albeit separate. Previously also coloureds had vote but was removed/disenfranchised after Nats took power.

 

[OrbitalDawn]

Direct rebuttal
http://www.latimes.com/opinion/op-ed/la-oe-makdisi-israel-apartheid-20140518-story.html

Their country but you right just like apartheid they stay in bantustans/homelands and get denied citizenship.

The rebuttal fails, sorry. By her reasoning practically every country in the Middle East is an Apartheid state. I'm waiting for the global outrage.

And were non-whites allowed to contest elections, join Parliament, become judges on the Supreme Court, become generals in the Army, be valedictorians at top universities etc., in Apartheid South Africa?

 

[Saba'a]

Interesting read athough the author quite often talks about non Israeli's. But like this thread, there's another side and as luck would have it, there was a link to this article with quite a few facts. Pop quiz time

http://www.latimes.com/opinion/op-ed/la-oe-0112-siegel-israel-boycott-apartheid-20140112-story.html

Sure but are these christian or muslim arabs?

Eg druze golani appointment is of a small religious group:
http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/topic/172195/Druze
Edit - many states will use minority allies or collaborators and say - see we dont discriminate

Interesting read athough the author quite often talks about non Israeli's. But like this thread, there's another side and as luck would have it, there was a link to this article with quite a few facts. Pop quiz time

http://www.latimes.com/opinion/op-ed/la-oe-0112-siegel-israel-boycott-apartheid-20140112-story.html

 

[Saba'a]

The rebuttal fails, sorry. By her reasoning practically every country in the Middle East is an Apartheid state. I'm waiting for the global outrage.

And were non-whites allowed to contest elections, join Parliament, become judges on the Supreme Court, become generals in the Army, be valedictorians at top universities etc., in Apartheid South Africa?

Non whites studied at apartheid universities. Non whites served in Apartheid army. Were also in the legislature till they became too many and then got a tricameral system.