Constitutional Court rules Stellenbosch University change from Afrikaans to English

Nicodeamus

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Hey man I'm just going by evidence shown on that map and according to that the vast majority of the countries that are red are poor countries.
Get new evidence then!

Having mother tongue education in a warzone like Afghanistan might be the only blessing to count.
 

Nicodeamus

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That's exactly why we should have monolingual institutions. No language competition within the institutions.
Let students themselves pick the medium of preference

Good luck trying to put the Swiss solution in South Africa.
 

Dave

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They speak Spanish as their mother tongue/1st language.
It's still the colonial language.

The languages of South America can be divided into three broad groups:

  • the languages of the (in most cases, former) colonial powers
  • many indigenous languages, some of which are co-official alongside the colonial languages
  • and various pockets of other languages spoken by immigrant populations that have survived assimilation by the process
The indigenous languages of South America are those whose origin dates back to the pre-Columbian era. The subcontinent has great linguistic diversity, but, as the number of speakers of indigenous languages is diminishing, it is estimated that it could become one of the least linguistically diverse regions of the planet.

About 600 indigenous languages are known from South America, Central America, and the Antilles (see List of indigenous languages of South America), although the actual number of languages that may have existed in the past may have been substantially higher.
722876

 

konfab

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personal experience although nowhere close to what blacks faced here. When I migrated here many moons ago, I was one of the 2 non-afrikaans speakers (other one was local) in a team with afrikaans speakers. It was not a big team - just 8-10 of us and in a fairly close seating arrangement. Talk was mostly done in afrikaans (perfectly understandable if personal talk) within team members but 2 of us were mostly lost most of the time as even while in technical discussions, afrikaans language took preference, of course with mild scattering of english word.
Funnily enough, I can follow a very technical conversation in Afrikaans fairly easily (because I had 2 years of university in it), it is the causal chatter that loses me. I am weirdly thankful I can't really follow the casual stuff as that would prevent me from politely ignoring the in-laws when they start gossiping at family events.
 

surface

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Funnily enough, I can follow a very technical conversation in Afrikaans fairly easily (because I had 2 years of university in it), it is the causal chatter that loses me. I am weirdly thankful I can't really follow the casual stuff as that would prevent me from politely ignoring the in-laws when they start gossiping at family events.
Difference is I am not native of this country. You possibly are. I learned a bit of afrikaans later as I like to learn languages in general. I still can't follow rapid conversation but 'as jy stadig praat, ek saal verstaan' :)
 

Polymathic

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Funnily enough, I can follow a very technical conversation in Afrikaans fairly easily (because I had 2 years of university in it), it is the causal chatter that loses me. I am weirdly thankful I can't really follow the casual stuff as that would prevent me from politely ignoring the in-laws when they start gossiping at family events.
Funny thing is that I can't help but eavsedrop whenever I hear people talking Afrikaans, to see how much of the Taal I still remember from school.

Mostly in malls and the vast majority of times it husbands fighting with their wives.
 

Fulcrum29

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That's NOT publicly financed

Nor are the Pretoria Chinese School, Lycée Jules Verne French School, Deutsche Internationale Schule Johannesburg, Japanese School in Emmarentia...
As much as it is, TechSol will be accessible by the public or will it be exclusive? You see, education is a right, and the state can base a case on that Human Right.

State institutions also have private donors.
 

surface

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This made me chuckle. Ja, Danie, we get that you were fighting for all the languages of south africa - how kind of you.

Also, what is this? "While the lobby group was disappointed at the ruling, Rossouw said they would be studying the judgment."

Does it mean they can take it to Hague, Netherlands?
 

losta

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As much as it is, TechSol will be accessible by the public or will it be exclusive?
Tech sol is exclusively for Afrikaans speaking students as much as Oxford is for English speaking students.
 

Fulcrum29

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Tech sol is exclusively for Afrikaans speaking students as much as Oxford is for English speaking students.
Sol-Tech, my error, governed by its current policy is as a technical college. Once they expand into a university, they will be exposed to syllabus models which cannot be inclusively taught in one exclusive language which then all, again, pending on the curriculum they want to introduce.

As a university, to exclusively subscribe to one language, it will be a barrier. This isn't occupational training, only, anymore. Unless the plan is to broaden Akademia, and its courses, into the public domain. There will be degrees where students will need to know and understand more languages than the 'prerequisite', they were accepted in.

It is also silly to compare Sol-Tech to a British university which is traditional, but who also caters to ‘non-English’ Europe and to international students (or prospects). Speaking and comprehending English is a requirement, not an exclusivity.

I asked whether Sol-Tech will be accessible by the public? Is Sol-Tech toeganklik deur die publiek?
 

noxibox

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If the majority of the students speak English, but not Afrikaans then the change makes sense. If not then it becomes the English speakers' responsibility to learn Afrikaans if they want to attend that university. That's what people did decades ago - honed their Afrikaans if Stellenbosch was their preferred university, because it was the best for certain degrees.

I will have to look around for the statistic, but if I remember correctly then of the developed countries in the world, only Singapore teaches engineering in the non mother tongue. That is a much better statistic to look at. You're making an error of commission by lumping Venzuela with Germany for example. There are lot of other issues as to why countries don't prosper then just language.
Equally those countries that are poor may have far more serious problems than what language they're using at universities.

In my case, although there was attempt to marginalise, I think most of those people were narrow minded. Despite being adults, they didn't know how to be inclusive. It was closer to year 2000 though. These days, people are careful. ;)
That's very possible. In the old days the attempts to marginalise English speakers was completely overt.

I personally would like to have a language policy that is based on the science of learning, and most multi-lingual educators will tell you that it is best to phase in both languages at the same time i.e. teach in both languages. I don't see the harm in that.
It isn't helpful to teach in the unfamiliar language in early schooling. So teach the other language, and at secondary level you can start using it for instruction.
 

losta

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As a university, to exclusively subscribe to one language, it will be a barrier. ....
Are you saying now that UCT per example is excluding students that only speak Zulu, Afrikaans or Swahili??

Should UCT now change its language policy?
 

Fulcrum29

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Are you saying now that UCT per example is excluding students that only speak Zulu, Afrikaans or Swahili??
It is one thing to move the goalpost, and another to move the schitpost. Read, again, what I said,

There will be degrees where students will need to know and understand more languages than the 'prerequisite', they were accepted in.
You stated,

Tech sol is exclusively for Afrikaans speaking students as much as Oxford is for English speaking students.
you are the one which climbed on the exclusivity train where I said that this ruling should apply to all areas where exclusions apply. Areas which will include public institutions and private initiatives accessible by the public, the public being the general public. See where I brought Sol-Tech into this, that the state may make the same argument.

Should UCT now change its language policy?
Why? It is already inclusive with English being the primary 'instruction' medium.

http://www.students.uct.ac.za/sites...licies/Language_Policy_19-June-2013_Final.pdf (PDF)

Teaching and Examinations English is both the primary medium of teaching and of examination except in language and literature departments where another language is taught and may be used. This applies at all levels, and to dissertations and theses for higher degrees. All academic programme convenors and teachers are expected to explore and implement ways in which the objective of the promotion of multilingual awareness and proficiency can be achieved; and to contribute towards realising the national goals of developing all South African languages and their use, and to promoting scholarship in all our languages.
Again, will Sol-Tech be accessible by the public or isn't it inclusive?
 

NarrowBandFtw

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"denying people mother tongue education is catastrophic for self esteem, doesn't allow learners to achieve their potential and leads inevitably to poverty"

I'm all for creating your own goddamn universities if this language issue is such a problem, but jirre that statement is a bit rof.
As a rock spider myself I quite enjoy english classes, the Afrikaans classes I had in Potch really made f**all difference since most of us preferred reading and writing exams in english anyway.
indeed, frankly I'd support English-only education, fahk EVERYONE'S mother tongue ... well aside from the khakies

the hottest bishes in my varsity days were in the English class anyway, I'd speak the tail deliciously all night long to them no problem!
 

rietrot

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indeed, frankly I'd support English-only education, fahk EVERYONE'S mother tongue ... well aside from the khakies

the hottest bishes in my varsity days were in the English class anyway, I'd speak the tail deliciously all night long to them no problem!
?taal
 
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