Cool Ideas Fibre ISP – Feedback Thread 4

CrypticZA

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Sep 21, 2019
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That's the IP it was connected to, so maybe they host some of their instance servers there?

Code:
Tracing route to uktest.cisp.co.za [154.0.5.20]
over a maximum of 30 hops:

  1    <1 ms    <1 ms    <1 ms  192.168.0.254
  2     *        *        *     Request timed out.
  3    11 ms    11 ms     6 ms  192.168.10.5
  4     1 ms     2 ms     1 ms  192.168.11.6
  5     3 ms     2 ms     1 ms  100.98.0.3
  6   142 ms   144 ms   143 ms  100.99.0.126
  7   142 ms   142 ms   142 ms  154.0.5.20

Trace complete.

That's what I would expect my latency to look like to WoW though.

I just logged in again and I'm still seeing 180ms+ - the 2 addresses the game is connected to is:

34.91.160.197 (same instance server as before)
37.244.61.61

Both seem to be Google IPs - no chance of shaving that down to 150ms?
Google transit picked up in JHB goes long way around been that way for 2+ years same stuff in Apex and other games using Google transit, use the VPN will get you 150 or use Warp will give you 167ms. If you lucky their path might have an issue and it will go down to 150ms for a few hours
 

Armizael

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May 31, 2006
Messages
540
Google transit picked up in JHB goes long way around been that way for 2+ years same stuff in Apex and other games using Google transit, use the VPN will get you 150 or use Warp will give you 167ms. If you lucky their path might have an issue and it will go down to 150ms for a few hours
@PBCool any chance of getting them to change this like you're trying to do for AWS?
 

Gimli

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Feb 8, 2005
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640
@Gimli This is more of a discussion in my opinion. User says they want XYZ then PBCool and Rodent determine if it will be beneficial to the majority of users. The majority of us have FTTH connections so we really don't have any ground to request/demand specific niche services. Keep in mind they are in no way obligated to assist us and do so out of their free will. They could always forward us to the regular support which will tell you to file a service request.

I'm personally getting MFN because I'm struggling with Openserve to resolve a problem and saw an opportunity to play with the new toys on Afrihost (still keeping my Openserve line with Cool Ideas).

Edit: Big tears if you end up on the ignore list for being rude :ROFL:
Thanks for your concern, but I am not a customer, and I am not being rude. What I do enjoy is that there is suddenly more discussion about IPV6 now that Afrihost has moved, and other ISP's are caught a bit with the pants around their knees. We in SA are lagging adoption world wide. As much as ISP's might see this as not necessary and an additional workload to them, it really has taken too long for this transition to happen. Content providers blame connectivity providers and visa versa. So I just think they all need to bite the bullet and get on with the job.

Many countries have government directives in place to drive the transition. Others move on their own due to market forces. Yet here we are making the case that 'why do you need it, you can do everything you want in IPV4'. That kind of thinking is like a car salesman trying to convince me to buy a 20yo NissanPatrol instead of a new Cruiser :)
 

Genisys

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Thanks for your concern, but I am not a customer, and I am not being rude. What I do enjoy is that there is suddenly more discussion about IPV6 now that Afrihost has moved, and other ISP's are caught a bit with the pants around their knees. We in SA are lagging adoption world wide. As much as ISP's might see this as not necessary and an additional workload to them, it really has taken too long for this transition to happen. Content providers blame connectivity providers and visa versa. So I just think they all need to bite the bullet and get on with the job.

Many countries have government directives in place to drive the transition. Others move on their own due to market forces. Yet here we are making the case that 'why do you need it, you can do everything you want in IPV4'. That kind of thinking is like a car salesman trying to convince me to buy a 20yo NissanPatrol instead of a new Cruiser :)
Again, you are missing the point here. CISP is focusing on what customers want. Lower latency and a better experience. IPv6 won't magically give those.

You are saying "So I just think they all need to bite the bullet and get on with the job.". So you are a network Engineer with experience in rolling out multi stack multihoming networks that does IPv4 and IPv6 efficiently?
 

Gimli

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Messages
640
Again, you are missing the point here. CISP is focusing on what customers want. Lower latency and a better experience. IPv6 won't magically give those.

You are saying "So I just think they all need to bite the bullet and get on with the job.". So you are a network Engineer with experience in rolling out multi stack multihoming networks that does IPv4 and IPv6 efficiently

Don't know how you get from 'just get on with the job' to 'so you are a network engineer' ? That is a bit of a leap. But just to put your mind at rest, I am not a network engineer.

I thought I saw earlier some of the CISP customers wanted IVP6 as well. I must have been mistaken.
Is it a binary choice though? Either a good performing network or a dual stack network? Why can't you have both?
 

PBCool

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Thanks for your concern, but I am not a customer, and I am not being rude. What I do enjoy is that there is suddenly more discussion about IPV6 now that Afrihost has moved, and other ISP's are caught a bit with the pants around their knees. We in SA are lagging adoption world wide. As much as ISP's might see this as not necessary and an additional workload to them, it really has taken too long for this transition to happen. Content providers blame connectivity providers and visa versa. So I just think they all need to bite the bullet and get on with the job.

Many countries have government directives in place to drive the transition. Others move on their own due to market forces. Yet here we are making the case that 'why do you need it, you can do everything you want in IPV4'. That kind of thinking is like a car salesman trying to convince me to buy a 20yo NissanPatrol instead of a new Cruiser :)
The major motivation for the move is due to v4 exhaustion, if a network is typically migrating to v6 this means they have no more v4 left.

It's got nothing to do with "getting it done" if it hampers your ability to provide a service I agree, but there is nothing currently that requires v6 to function correctly.

With v6 you still require access to v4 either via 6to4 gateways or some sort of nat. v4 isn't going anywhere for a long time, if we run out of v4 resources then so be it and we will adjust but as previously mentioned for most customers it's insignificant. To say that because your ISP is implementing v6 is changing the approach of the industry is very naive in my opinion.
 

Gimli

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Messages
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@PBCool Please don't put words in my mouth. My ISP implemented IPV6 long ago, I am not a customer of Afrihost if that is who you are referring to. Secondly, the world is moving towards the adoption of IPV6, some countries like india are at a 60% adoption rate already, america at 40%, south africa at 0.2%. The world is moving at a steady pace. I am saying that all should just get the job done. Insist that your wordpress site is hosted on a dualstack platform, insist that your ISP provides you with a dual stack connection etc. etc.

Yes the major motivator is that we have run out of IPV4, but also to get away from NAT (which was invented as a temporary mechanism to deal with the depletion of IPV4 addresses), which now suddently seems to be accepted as the norm. And g*d forbid, CGNAT which, if you leave it to these ISP's that don't want to move, will be the next big thing to motivate that we don't really need IPV6 because look.... we can do it all on IPV4.

IPV4 never intended you to be behind NAT.

With a dual stack solution you dont need any 6 to 4 NAT or visa versal. Your device simply chooses to to use whichever network is available, preferring IPV6 if available. So, my computer goes to google.com and netflix.com using IPV6 natively, and it comes to mybroadband.co.za using IPV4. No translation mechanism required. No NAT on the IPV6 side.
 

PBCool

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@PBCool Please don't put words in my mouth. My ISP implemented IPV6 long ago, I am not a customer of Afrihost if that is who you are referring to. Secondly, the world is moving towards the adoption of IPV6, some countries like india are at a 60% adoption rate already, america at 40%, south africa at 0.2%. The world is moving at a steady pace. I am saying that all should just get the job done. Insist that your wordpress site is hosted on a dualstack platform, insist that your ISP provides you with a dual stack connection etc. etc.

Yes the major motivator is that we have run out of IPV4, but also to get away from NAT (which was invented as a temporary mechanism to deal with the depletion of IPV4 addresses), which now suddently seems to be accepted as the norm. And g*d forbid, CGNAT which, if you leave it to these ISP's that don't want to move, will be the next big thing to motivate that we don't really need IPV6 because look.... we can do it all on IPV4.

IPV4 never intended you to be behind NAT.

With a dual stack solution you dont need any 6 to 4 NAT or visa versal. Your device simply chooses to to use whichever network is available, preferring IPV6 if available. So, my computer goes to google.com and netflix.com using IPV6 natively, and it comes to mybroadband.co.za using IPV4. No translation mechanism required. No NAT on the IPV6 side.
Did you notice regions that depleted their v4 resources first have adopted v6 the most? Dual stack means you still have to maintain both stacks, and if there is no substantial need for v6 then what is the respective difference or need?

As you mention in the US or India they aren't running dual stack they are traversing the 6to4.

Your analogy of an old car vs a new implies you think the one is better than the other, when it is in fact just a different numbering scheme.

The previous posters/customers that want v6 mostly don't understand it, aside from the few network engineers. Compared to the 99.999% of the rest of our customers that are more interested in service, network performance etc.

We will be implementing v6 as mentioned on multiple posts but it is not a relative need at this point as explained.
 

Gimli

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Messages
640
Did you notice regions that depleted their v4 resources first have adopted v6 the most? Dual stack means you still have to maintain both stacks, and if there is no substantial need for v6 then what is the respective difference or need?

As you mention in the US or India they aren't running dual stack they are traversing the 6to4.

Your analogy of an old car vs a new implies you think the one is better than the other, when it is in fact just a different numbering scheme.

The previous posters/customers that want v6 mostly don't understand it, aside from the few network engineers. Compared to the 99.999% of the rest of our customers that are more interested in service, network performance etc.

We will be implementing v6 as mentioned on multiple posts but it is not a relative need at this point as explained.

The transition will not be an instant one but a gradual one as we can see. And as I said there are various forces driving this, IPV4 depletion being one and Government regulation being another, and financial benefit/efficiencies another.
The transition mechanisms, of which dualstack is one and 6to4 is another is not ubiquitous. It largely depends on the organisation implementing it. Not sure where you got the idea that the 'US' as a whole are using that. There is a mix.

Never say your customers don't understand, you will lose them as customers.
It is good to see that you are planning to do IPV6, your customers will also benefit.

I think we have gone down far enough in this rabit hole but just to close out how I see the benefit to me and I illustrate that with the following two similar usecases:

Use-case 1

- IOT devices (remote weather stations and sensors)
- Device connects on mobile network
- Mobile network has CGNAT - There is no way to connect to that device.
- If the mobile network doesn't have CGNAT, I still have to setup DDNS to know what the public IP is.
- If I make the connection via a router on the mobile network I need to setup port forwarding on the router.
- If I have multiple devices and all of those devices are similar and listen on the same port, I need to configure them to listen on different ports and setup port forwarding accordingly.


Use-case 2

- Two servers and 2 cameras at my house.
- My router connects to my ISP to make a connection
- My ISP has CGNAT - there is no way to contact my devices
- If my ISP did not implement CGNAT - I still need to setup DDNS.
- I need to setup port forwarding to those devices and if they want to communicate on the same port (eg. 22,80 etc) I need to configure them to listen on different ports and setup port forwarding accordingly.

Vendors have gotten around this issue by requiring that devices log into and register on the vendor platform thereby 'punching a hole through your firewall' to enable you to communicate to your devices, but that is significantly undesirable.
With IPV6 you get around these issues without a problem.
 

PBCool

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The transition will not be an instant one but a gradual one as we can see. And as I said there are various forces driving this, IPV4 depletion being one and Government regulation being another, and financial benefit/efficiencies another.
The transition mechanisms, of which dualstack is one and 6to4 is another is not ubiquitous. It largely depends on the organisation implementing it. Not sure where you got the idea that the 'US' as a whole are using that. There is a mix.

Never say your customers don't understand, you will lose them as customers.
It is good to see that you are planning to do IPV6, your customers will also benefit.

I think we have gone down far enough in this rabit hole but just to close out how I see the benefit to me and I illustrate that with the following two similar usecases:

Use-case 1

- IOT devices (remote weather stations and sensors)
- Device connects on mobile network
- Mobile network has CGNAT - There is no way to connect to that device.
- If the mobile network doesn't have CGNAT, I still have to setup DDNS to know what the public IP is.
- If I make the connection via a router on the mobile network I need to setup port forwarding on the router.
- If I have multiple devices and all of those devices are similar and listen on the same port, I need to configure them to listen on different ports and setup port forwarding accordingly.


Use-case 2

- Two servers and 2 cameras at my house.
- My router connects to my ISP to make a connection
- My ISP has CGNAT - there is no way to contact my devices
- If my ISP did not implement CGNAT - I still need to setup DDNS.
- I need to setup port forwarding to those devices and if they want to communicate on the same port (eg. 22,80 etc) I need to configure them to listen on different ports and setup port forwarding accordingly.

Vendors have gotten around this issue by requiring that devices log into and register on the vendor platform thereby 'punching a hole through your firewall' to enable you to communicate to your devices, but that is significantly undesirable.
With IPV6 you get around these issues without a problem.
Well it's not punching any holes that is just an established outbound connection, most new relative technologies will use outbound based connectivity as it isn't feasible for your average user to have to manage inbound connections to your home, and is technically an insecure strategy.

That is technically a legacy way of doing things, moving to v6 means every device needs local firewalling as well. Again fine for most new devices but not old, all things to consider when implementing on a substantial base of customers.

I never mentioned which strategy the US uses for v6 I was simply stating it was one of the first places to run out of v4 hence the need for v6.
 

FFMG

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Jul 5, 2006
Messages
244
I am having authentication issues in the Durban area with cool ideas + vodacom... Is anybody else having issues?

My username and password has not changed in months, so I don't think that's the issue.

I tried a reboot of the vodacom and WiFi routers with no luck.
 
Last edited:

PBCool

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I am having authentication issues in the Durban area with vumatel + vodacom... Is anybody else having issues?

My username and password has not changed in months, so I don't think that's the issue.

I tried a reboot of the vodacom and WiFi routers with no luck.
Vodacom as your ISP? Are you getting auth failures or auth timeouts?
 
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