Court case could end affirmative action based on race in South Africa

[ForceFate]

Sincere apologies, might be irritating you for another 2 or 3 years.
It puzzles me when you tell the whiteys to p*&& off back to Europe, only to spit vitriol when we do.
Anyway, think of me on the Annual Budget Speech by our honorable minister of finance, everytime the targets are missed. And then when collections start collapsing. And then when GDP starts going backwards. And the inflation kicks in. Gonna be a rollercoaster ride I intend on missing.

It's not the "prepping and leaving" that irks others. You're probably aware of this.

 

[Bewlen]

It's not the "prepping and leaving" that irks others. You're probably aware of this.

Keep telling yourself whatever makes you sleep at night.

 

[Fulcrum29]

This and no side was victorious here by case ruling.

"Congratulations with your victory, but I'll see you in a higher court," Van der Bijl told advocate Tshidiso Ramogale, who represented labour minister Thulas Nxesi.

It is clear in which context that remark was made. Solidariteit is clever to approach this by stepping stones.

Labour Court - Jurisdiction, no.
Constitutional Court - ?

Solidarity will oppose Labour Court ruling in higher court - Solidariteit Wêreld

Solidarity is considering approaching the Constitutional Court to rule on the report of South African Human Rights Commission (SAHRC) regarding affirmative action. This follows after the Labour Court in Johannesburg ruled today that, on technical grounds, the report cannot be regarded as binding...

solidariteit.co.za

Solidarity will oppose Labour Court ruling in higher court

Solidarity is considering approaching the Constitutional Court to rule on the report of South African Human Rights Commission (SAHRC) regarding affirmative action. This follows after the Labour Court in Johannesburg ruled today that, on technical grounds, the report cannot be regarded as binding and may be ignored by the government. The SAHRC published in an equality report that the South African affirmative action programme does not comply with the Constitution and International Law. The report also recommended that the government change the Employment Equity Act. Solidarity requested the Labour Court to force the government to comply with the recommendations after the government neglected to do so.

Anton van der Bijl, Head of Legal Services at Solidarity, says it is regrettable that the Labour Court did not provide a final decision on this matter, but it is only a tactical setback. The case will most probably be taken further to the Constitutional Court.

The equality report of the SAHRC was not declared invalid by the Labour Court and therefore, the recommendations are still applicable. Solidarity plans to approach the United Nation’s Committee on the Elimination of Racial Discrimination again to take the matter further on an international platform.

The ConCourt will have no option to rule on the matter, however, this will now turn into a resource-hungry matter and Solidarity will need time to prepare. The UN can only really weigh in their opinion.

 

[ForceFate]

Keep telling yourself whatever makes you sleep at night.

Nah mate. Personally, I know people leave for various reasons. Personal. I can't speak for people on twitter and facebook but people here don't give a toss. That's until you start being a nuisance

 

[Thor]

Ain't nothing going to happen or change.

This

 

[RyanPCMR]

Just saw this thread now and it was really funny to read that there are those of the MyBB community who actually thought the ANC would "allow" the end of their affirmative action race card. The greed of the black South African knows no bounds and riding the race card for all its worth is the preferred way to the top for black people in SA. They really think they are better than the white racists in Apartheid. Greed and racism can be laid in front of most black people today in SA. They've convinced themselves that what they are doing to other races are justified. Keep treating me like **** but the very next day asking if I'm affiliated yet just upsets me knowing the SA law will do nothing for me in any event. LOL!

Viva racist ANC supporters! Viva!

 

[Jings]

This

Not for long. Apparently what goes around comes around.

 

[Bewlen]

Nah mate. Personally, I know people leave for various reasons. Personal. I can't speak for people on twitter and facebook but people here don't give a toss. That's until you start being a nuisance

You say so much without saying anything at all.

"It's not the "prepping and leaving" that irks others. You're probably aware of this. "
It's like there's more to be said here. Or is the full stop at the end actually just a pause for dramatic effect? Seems I am not - after all - aware of it?

"Nah mate. Personally, I know people leave for various reasons. Personal. I can't speak for people on twitter and facebook but people here don't give a toss. That's until you start being a nuisance"
Again, I have so many questions. Alluding that you don't care? Alluding that they (people "here"?) don't care? Who would "they" be? Or do you only care when they "start being a nuisance"? When are they doing this nuisancinimacating behaviour, and what would this be specifically?

 

[Swa]

Just saw this thread now and it was really funny to read that there are those of the MyBB community who actually thought the ANC would "allow" the end of their affirmative action race card. The greed of the black South African knows no bounds and riding the race card for all its worth is the preferred way to the top for black people in SA. They really think they are better than the white racists in Apartheid. Greed and racism can be laid in front of most black people today in SA. They've convinced themselves that what they are doing to other races are justified. Keep treating me like **** but the very next day asking if I'm affiliated yet just upsets me knowing the SA law will do nothing for me in any event. LOL!

Viva racist ANC supporters! Viva!

History will judge harshly and will not discriminate between those that did and those that didn't. Turnaround is fair play.

 

[krycor]

fixed


One could argue that it's even more wrong now as it "protects" the majority from the minority.

I dunno.. do a few company visits sometime. While there are many that hire diverse people there are plenty that look like a company in 94.

Is is amazing how many people can see it was wrong under apartheid but are unable to do the same today.

It’s simple.. there has never been an adequate fix to correct the imbalance created in society.

While AA, BEE etc aim to rapidly address the shortfall directly by encouraging diversity in workforce.. it’s been 25yrs.. will hiring diverse workforce happen outside of gov pushing it? In corporate SA I seriously doubt there will be changes as they have CSRs but yah.. SMEs will be fun to watch not that the ones that refuse to change have.

I reckon no.. this forum has shown countless times people can’t change.

 

[konfab]

While AA, BEE etc aim to rapidly address the shortfall directly by encouraging diversity in workforce.. it’s been 25yrs.. will hiring diverse workforce happen outside of gov pushing it? In corporate SA I seriously doubt there will be changes as they have CSRs but yah.. SMEs will be fun to watch not that the ones that refuse to change have.

If you turn off the racist assumption that black people are inferior to white people, it is very easy to identify the solution: let the market decide.
If a racist business owner chooses not to employ a talented employee, they will lose out to a competitor who isn't racist.

I dunno.. do a few company visits sometime. While there are many that hire diverse people there are plenty that look like a company in 94.

25 years of government education is responsible for that.

Do you send stuff via private courier where there might not be perfect democraphic representation or do you send it via the post office where there is?

 

[BBSA]

It’s simple.. there has never been an adequate fix to correct the imbalance created in society.

Nonsense, the market will correct imbalances.

If a company refuse to change he will quickly become uncompetitive.

 

[GhostSixFour]

Nonsense, the market will correct imbalances.

If a company refuse to change he will quickly become uncompetitive.

And, something that I feel is often neglected in discussions like this, is the savings companies will experience should this policy go away.

Companies are coughing up a lot for the AA candidates that are really performing and these candidates are jumping ship every 6 or so months for another 20% increase.

 

[Hamster]

Sincere apologies, might be irritating you for another 2 or 3 years.
It puzzles me when you tell the whiteys to p*&& off back to Europe, only to spit vitriol when we do.
Anyway, think of me on the Annual Budget Speech by our honorable minister of finance, everytime the targets are missed. And then when collections start collapsing. And then when GDP starts going backwards. And the inflation kicks in. Gonna be a rollercoaster ride I intend on missing.

Save your money, find a job, pack your **** and leave.

Telling people over and over again you intend on leaving, that the country is going down, that there is not hope... we get it. Some of us even agree with you. We don't particularly care about your feelings about it, but we do get it.

There's no need to repeat it. Makes you sound like a man without a plan, scared shitless off actually pulling the trigger and leaving.

Be a man. Do it!

 

[surface]

Yeah, a fun fact is that there are about 10 times more blacks in the country than whites. So even if you take everything that whites have and distribute it around, the average black will only grow by 1/10 the average white guy now, in terms of wealth. Barely anything.

Developed property & land is nearly taken already so I don't know what you mean.

Do you mean cars?

 

[SaiyanZ]

Developed property & land is nearly taken already so I don't know what you mean.

Do you mean cars?

Wealth is the sum of all assets less liabilities. So all paid off parts of land, homes, cars, as well as savings, etc.

I posted in the other thread yesterday with actual numbers which shows what would happen if everything was redistributed evenly. It's no wonder people are leaving for Australia. If you are worth $100k would you want to live in a country where the average person is worth $22k or in a country where the average person is worth $400k. In the one country you would have to support others with taxes more and more as you get wealthier and in the other, others will support you until you can match them.

Blacks can't get rich by taking from whites. There's too many.

The stats say that the mean wealth per adult in SA is $22k. So if you distribute all wealth in SA evenly throughout the entire population this is what each adult will be worth. SA is the 64th country on the list. This is not even counting the ton of kids that are not adults yet. Our population is also growing faster than first world countries so we are becoming poorer on average relative to the rest of the world.

List of countries by wealth per adult - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

For comparison, the mean wealth per adult is over $200k for all the top 20 countries. Mean wealth per adult in Australia and USA is over $400k. South Africa is poor as ****. Even if you take everything from whites and spread it around you'll still be 20 times poorer than the average American or Australian.

 

[TheChamp]

If a racist business owner chooses not to employ a talented employee, they will lose out to a competitor who isn't racist.

I am afraid it is not that easy, a racist business owner just need to ensure the right line of racist patronage from the source of business deals and they would easily survive over other non racial businesses.

It's like trying to compete with the Guptas on doing business while employing the right morals and business practices, it just won't work.

 

[surface]

I am afraid it is not that easy, a racist business owner just need to ensure the right line of racist patronage from the source of business deals and they would easily survive over other non racial businesses.

It's like trying to compete with the Guptas on doing business while employing the right morals and business practices, it just won't work.

I agree but guys like Motsepe are equally responsible for this in my opinion. Patrice Motsepe bought about 18% of stake in metrofibre and got them level 4 BEE certificate. There are thousands of such companies. Guptas did the same but they mastered the "art"

* I am not suggesting this is a racist business practice.

Managed Fibre Optic Broadband Connectivity | About MetroFibre

MetroFibre Networx is a carrier class Ethernet infrastructure company, that provides highly managed fibre optic broadband connectivity in South Africa.

metrofibre.co.za

 

[flippakitten]

I love the headline, so dramatic "Solidarity suffers defeat in affirmative action case".
We all knew this was just the first required step before it could be taken to a higher court, honestly surprised it took this long to get to the ruling.

Anyway, it's a racist policy and should be totally abolished. Then, BEE should also be totally reworked to disable corruption in so much as to get 100% BEE rating, build a school in a township, offer internships, that kind of thing, stuff that actually focusses on fixing the root problem. This will never happen though as the people that make the laws are the same people that benefit from them.

 

[konfab]

I am afraid it is not that easy, a racist business owner just need to ensure the right line of racist patronage from the source of business deals and they would easily survive over other non racial businesses.

It's like trying to compete with the Guptas on doing business while employing the right morals and business practices, it just won't work.

Disagree completely.
Employee salaries are usually the largest expense for most businesses, thus you are incurring a colossal opportunity cost by not picking the best candidate for the job.

There are two examples I can give of this.
One is the absolute mismanagement of the state owned companies in this country that do these stupid policies (this includes before 1994). Aside from Eskom, most of the state owned companies in South Africa have always been an absolute sh!tshow because of these polices(both past and present racial nationalism). All the ANC has managed to do is get Eskom to join the pile of garbage.

The other is the relative increase in wealth for white South Africans once the labour market became substantially more free in 1994. This was because they were substantially less barriers for them to access other sources of labour for their businesses, especially for more senior roles.

And anyway, the last 25 years of affirmative action and race based policy clearly has not worked, and has only enriched the politically connected. Why don't we give the free market a try for once in this country's wretched history.