Court dismisses AfriForum application to have 'Kill the Boer' declared hate speech

[GrootVoet]

My test is will it be okay if you switch out the names. Example what if "Kill the Boer / Settlers" becomes "Kill the Labors" or "Kill the Blacks" or Kill the Xhosas / Zulus", will that be hate speech? Just because we've been doing things for ages does not make it right, apartheid also been around for a long time but its not right.

 

[Oldfut]

"Expression will constitute hate speech when it seeks to violate rights of another person or group of persons based on group identity"

You can't really fault the judge in this case - Afriforum didn't have independent expert witnesses and the lay witnesses were too vague to make a convincing argument. Due to Afriforum sh*tting the bed with their witnesses, the court had to rely on the literal vs figurative nature of how the song is interpreted and whether a 'reasonable person' would interpret the contents of the song as Literal or Figurative.

The issue of HOW the Equality Act is interpreted, fair vs unfair discrimination, is also raised. There was also the issue of how section 10(1) of the Equality Act was declared unconstitutional and invalid by the CC subject to amendment by parliament:
'Subject to the proviso in section 12, no person may publish, propagate, advocate or communicate words that are based on one or more of the prohibited grounds, against any person, that could reasonably be construed to demonstrate a clear intention to be harmful or to incite harm and to promote or propagate hatred' -> this removed the 'to be hurtful' test of the freedom of expression. This turned out to be an important factor in determining whether the song is causing HARM or HURT.

The court essentially found that, given the atrocities of what happened to the marginalised in the past: 'Difficult as it may be to uphold, the society has a duty in terms of his principle to allow and be tolerant of both popular and unpopular views of its members' EFF vs SANEF case was also brought up where the CC stated: "...even if the prohibited utterances in question could qualify as hate speech on its terms but fail to incite, or reasonably construed as inciting harm, no liability could arise in respect of section 10 of the Equality Act".

Basically, the court found that Afriforum only had a case if the average person would interpret the song LITERALLY as it is AND be called to incite HARM - not hurt.

Ah, "given the atrocities of what happened to the marginalised in the past"; that explains it, different application for different raced groups; racism by definition. The rest is weasel words. Whatever else could "kill the boer, kill the farmer" (or "slitting the throat of whiteness") mean if not incitement to do "harm"? Alice in Wonderland comes to SA. Pity there is pretty much zero consistency in applying tolerance as I see it.

 

[Mista_Mobsta]

Ah, "given the atrocities of what happened to the marginalised in the past"; that explains it, different application for different raced groups; racism by definition. The rest is weasel words. Whatever else could "kill the boer, kill the farmer" (or "slitting the throat of whiteness") mean if not incitement to do "harm"? Alice in Wonderland comes to SA. Pity there is pretty much zero consistency in applying tolerance as I see it.

100% I don't agree with the judgement in principle but given all the previous judgements that HAVE to be taken into account by the CC, coupled with Afriforum's bad witnesses, the judge almost had no choice in the judgement. It's very complicated in legal terms but in my humble opinion, the song is 100% incitement of violence/action against a group, no matter how the legal spindoctors weave their webs!!

In the end, if the test is whether a normal person with average intellect will interpret the song as a literal call to action, then the test passes muster with EFF and ANC supporters as anyone that supports these parties come election time, has zero intelligent braincells given the outcome of the past couple of decades! Rant over...

 

[Gyre]

100% I don't agree with the judgement in principle but given all the previous judgements that HAVE to be taken into account by the CC, coupled with Afriforum's bad witnesses, the judge almost had no choice in the judgement. It's very complicated in legal terms but in my humble opinion, the song is 100% incitement of violence/action against a group, no matter how the legal spindoctors weave their webs!!

In the end, if the test is whether a normal person with average intellect will interpret the song as a literal call to action, then the test passes muster with EFF and ANC supporters as anyone that supports these parties come election time, has zero intelligent braincells given the outcome of the past couple of decades! Rant over...

I see it as an incitement of violence too, but then I also see the waving of the old flag being a way of saying "this was my country and I want it back."

Despite what the courts decided, both the song and the flag had a history in this country beyond the literal meaning and sense of them.

 

[Moosedrool]

I see it as an incitement of violence too, but then I also see the waving of the old flag being a way of saying "this was my country and I want it back."

Despite what the courts decided, both the song and the flag had a history in this country beyond the literal meaning and sense of them.

And I also think Paris Hilton is the worst female role model the world has seen and just had to say it regardless of its irrelevance.

 

[Gyre]

And I also think Paris Hilton is the worst female role model the world has seen and just had to say it regardless of its irrelevance.

Afriforum went to court to restrict the EFF singing the song and also went to court to get the old flag unbanned - different groups and cultures view these things in completely different ways. There is a reason De La Rey resonates with a lot of people too, and why people have various opinions on Mandela, PW Botha, etc.

 

[wingnut771]

Afriforum should have called a few EFF members in to testify in what they think in their minds what the song is about.

 

[WizardOfAges]

Any form of discrimination is morally wrong. Doesn't matter which group it is targeted against. It also doesn't matter if it's a song or part of a culture's heritage. Any form of discrimination against a fellow person is unnecessary in a modern society. We're not in the middle ages anymore. Let's build bridges and not walls.

 

[purple face]

live now

 

[Cosmic_Nomad]

So this is A ok then ?

 

[WizardOfAges]

So this is A ok then ?

No it is not.

 

[Cosmic_Nomad]

That's a matter of opnion.

 

[ForceFate]

Good song, you should sing it at a political rally

The other side of the EFF coin. Are you surprised?

 

[surface]

"Shoot the Monkey, Shoot the Ape. Ratatatata, shoot to kill!"

shame..even mojo didn't give you a like. Do better

 

[surface]

So this is A ok then ?

I heard that CIC is shivering after seeing this post.

 

[Oldfut]

The other side of the EFF coin. Are you surprised?

Yup, one should try not fall into the trap of kneejerk, tit for tat, eye for an eye etc etc particularly as a (targeted?) minority with the crooked shopkeeper's thumb on the scales of justice (how is that for cramming in the metaphors).

In my view there should be degrees of racist or hate speech from derogatory words, displays of old flags etc climbing to threats of violence or murder against minority groups (if we learn from history ha ha) earning the harshest sanction. The SA situation, as often the case, seems upside down.

Personally I will see how things develop but gut feel is to externalise as far as is possible. Learn from Zim. As we saw in the KZN riots, things can go crazy very, very quickly. Sad.

 

[Gyre]

MyBB reasoning:

 

[Defonotaltaccount]

Gunner eh ?

 

[Pak Fa Fui]

Disappointing outcome. The damned song is plain hate speech. (Irony is how the EFF calls AfriForum the racists in this case, yet they unironically sing a song that calls for the killing of whites...)
I don't really root for AfriForum, but for this case, I will. I hope they win the appeal.

Why drag all white people into this

 

[wingnut771]

Why drag all white people into this

because it's the truth.