Court reserves judgement in climate activists' case against 3,000MW gas power plant

Jan

Jan

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Cosmik Debris

Cosmik Debris

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How about some pragmatism applied to the judgement? Whenever there is load shedding, any climate activist has their power shut off for the entire period, not just in their allocated times. That might jerk them into reality.
 
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kolakidd

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Cosmik Debris said:
How about some pragmatism applied to the judgement? Whenever there is load shedding, any climate activist has their power shut off for the entire period, not just in their allocated times. That might jerk them into reality.
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It's not about the climate. It's about finding another Medupi and another Hitachi to fund Chancelor House or some such scam which focusses on feeding the trough rather than the masses.

See proper journalism here> https://www.dailymaverick.co.za/art...gy-fund-to-open-new-gas-bridge-to-mozambique/
 
system32

system32

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Where does the gas come from?
Is the gas imported like diesel for the OCGT (Open Cycle Gas Turbines)?
Coal, Solar and wind are all local resources and should be prioritised over imported gas.
 
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RVQ

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I'm all for the planet but we need an answer to baseload and peak energy needs. Simply put next generation nuclear, coal and gas has to be on the table to stabilise the grid in a country where pumped storage is restricted by drought and other energy storage for solar and wind still need a way to go.

This gas plant will most likely be significantly more efficient and better for the planet than burning diesel or running the old power stations and will most likely be needed for its full lifetime as green energies reach full potential. I'd rather see the green squad spend their efforts fighting against Karpowerships and for Decommissioning of old power stations.
 
Johand

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Urgency is no excuse to do a bad job. I personally am worried that there is a push to get "bad" projects pushed through under the guise of urgency of loadshedding. I don't want another Medupi or Kusili.I don't want contracts that essentially steal our nation blind for 20 years because somebody saw a gap of doing nefarious or stupid things under the guise of urgency.

Example - The power ship contracts really worry me.

There is enough good solutions that we shouldn't expend time and energy on the bad solutions.
 
Sapphiron

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ijacobs3 said:
View attachment 1359129
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The hippies are not wrong to try to block this project. Just not for the right reasons.

This government loves fossil fuels as they generate continuous revenue to cadres supplying fuel.

Also, battery banks have been shown to work well as alternatives to peaking plants.

But batteries don't need continuous deliveries of overpriced diesel or gas.
 
Spizz

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RVQ said:
I'm all for the planet but we need an answer to baseload and peak energy needs. Simply put next generation nuclear, coal and gas has to be on the table to stabilise the grid in a country where pumped storage is restricted by drought and other energy storage for solar and wind still need a way to go.

This gas plant will most likely be significantly more efficient and better for the planet than burning diesel or running the old power stations and will most likely be needed for its full lifetime as green energies reach full potential. I'd rather see the green squad spend their efforts fighting against Karpowerships and for Decommissioning of old power stations.
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Karpowerships are gas engines.
 
Sapphiron

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Spizz said:
Go and have a look at the California Duck Curve. Gas is the best way to provide flexible back up to renewables.
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Experience from south Australia has proven over the last 10 years that battery packs are also effective.

And their running costs are not linked to a highly manipulated oil and gas market.
 
Spizz

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Sapphiron said:
Experience from south Australia has proven over the last 10 years that battery packs are also effective.

And their running costs are not linked to a highly manipulated oil and gas market.
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Battery storage is or can be effective, but capacity has to be something like 500% of demand to be truly effective and even then you’d need some flexible generation. South Australia is still in its infancy with regard to BESS but it is making strides. I’m not sure where you get your information from but they have little battery storage at present.
 
itareanlnotani

itareanlnotani

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Spizz said:
Go and have a look at the California Duck Curve. Gas is the best way to provide flexible back up to renewables.
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Gas is one of the potential methods. The problem here is we tend to use Diesel in our gas turbines. Hairdresser Diesel.

Pumped storage is the best option. CSP is another option, although pricey - but does allow for 12+hr output.
Gas is good as a temp solution, if it really is gas, but not Karpower for 20+ years.

To be honest we'd be better off adding a ton more solar, so that our existing pumped storage can be used for its proper purpose - running the duck curves, vs being used for load.
 
Spizz

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itareanlnotani said:
Gas is one of the potential methods. The problem here is we tend to use Diesel in our gas turbines. Hairdresser Diesel.

Pumped storage is the best option. CSP is another option, although pricey - but does allow for 12+hr output.
Gas is good as a temp solution, if it really is gas, but not Karpower for 20+ years.

To be honest we'd be better off adding a ton more solar, so that our existing pumped storage can be used for its proper purpose - running the duck curves, vs being used for load.
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Turbines cannot adapt dynamically to the demand. They run at 100% all the time whereas gas engines can increase or decrease the load instantly which is important when we consider renewables and their inconsistent nature.

But Karpowerships are like any other IPP and they gave a price per kWh over a 20 year period as per the governments requirements. And as much as I think it’s a terrible solution for any number of reasons, their prices are pretty low compared to the other solutions awarded contracts in the emergency power programme.
 
itareanlnotani

itareanlnotani

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Spizz said:
Turbines cannot adapt dynamically to the demand. They run at 100% all the time whereas gas engines can increase or decrease the load instantly which is important when we consider renewables and their inconsistent nature.

But Karpowerships are like any other IPP and they gave a price per kWh over a 20 year period as per the governments requirements. And as much as I think it’s a terrible solution for any number of reasons, their prices are pretty low compared to the other solutions awarded contracts in the emergency power programme.
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No.

You can go read here to see why I say no.
 
Spizz

Spizz

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itareanlnotani said:
No.

You can go read here to see why I say no.
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I’m not sure what you are saying “no” to as I’ve covered a couple of points. But sorry it’s late and I’m also not reading all that :)

Suffice to say the article you link to is talking about turbines which I’ve already said are inefficient. When I talk about gas I’m talking about engines. Engines which can run at 10% or 100% as required. Like the Karpowerships.
 
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