Court reserves judgement in climate activists' case against 3,000MW gas power plant

[Spizz]

I think i can get to the bottom of this easily.
Everybody says 20 minutes and up, you are 2 minutes or less from startup / cold.
And everybody is fighting about what constitute a cold start.
By everything i read, these engines are warm, they are not running, but the oil in the engine is kept warm at 60 degrees, with oil cirulating. Is this correct? WIth this in mind i can see that it can be ramped up withing 2 minutes. The engine is warm, so no biggie.

But for argument sake, what if the circulating oil was switched off. The engine stand there, switched off, no oil circulating, so at 10 degrees. Surely from this point on it cannot be <2 minutes?

Depends on temperature, more like 5 to 10 minutes.

An engine, whether petrol, diesel, gas, rotary or what ever, it needs to be warm, oil circulating, otherwise you will break it. You do not start your Ferrari and rev the crap out of it first thing in the morning. However after it is nice and warm, you can stop at garage, get a pie and some rennies, when you get back in the car give it a few seconds to make sure oil is where it is suppose to be, and you can give it horns. this i gther is the same as your engines. Warmed up but switched off.

More or less. But circulating with warm water, not oil.

It seems that the people arguing are unaware of advances in technology and software than enable quick start solution to be just that. It's horses for courses. If the combustion engines are providing base load running on natural gas then the quick start point is moor. If running on heavy/light/olive oil, the fuel will be stored in tanks at a proper temperature, same with a peaker. For a quick start scenario they need a different way of doing things altogether and that is as explained.

 

[Cosmik Debris]

By everything i read, these engines are warm, they are not running, but the oil in the engine is kept warm at 60 degrees, with oil cirulating. Is this correct? WIth this in mind i can see that it can be ramped up withing 2 minutes. The engine is warm, so no biggie.

But for argument sake, what if the circulating oil was switched off. The engine stand there, switched off, no oil circulating, so at 10 degrees. Surely from this point on it cannot be <2 minutes?

I explained this in one of my posts. I also explained that should maintenance be required on the engine, it will need to be cooled as working on a 60 C engine will be rather uncomfortable. And to get a 10MW engine to that temperature by pumping round warmed oil, it will take several hours.

And there also seems to be no understanding that the fuel type on a reciprocating engine makes no difference to the start up and on load time.

I have therefore given up arguing with a civil engineer who knows more about concrete than I do even though I have done factory, installation and commissioning trials and run several generating plants world wide.

 

[Spizz]

I explained this in one of my posts. I also explained that should maintenance be required on the engine, it will need to be cooled as working on a 60 C engine will be rather uncomfortable. And to get a 10MW engine to that temperature by pumping round warmed oil, it will take several hours.

And there also seems to be no understanding that the fuel type on a reciprocating engine makes no difference to the start up and on load time.

I have therefore given up arguing with a civil engineer who knows more about concrete than I do even though I have done factory, installation and commissioning trials and run several generating plants world wide.

Lol, how many strawmen can you introduce in one short post? I've never seen such rambling on nothing about nothing in all my years on this forum.

Does a grid tied Wartsila 34SG go from shutdown to full power in 2 minutes or not?

 

[Cosmik Debris]

Lol, how many strawmen can you introduce in one short post? I've never seen such rambling on nothing about nothing in all my years on this forum.

Does a grid tied Wartsila 34SG go from shutdown to full power in 2 minutes or not?

Depends if it's cold or hot. But you know better despite never having commissioned nor been in charge of a generating plant, neve mind operated one. So I'll leave the argument and send this thread to all the others in the same position as I am for a giggle.

 

[Spizz]

Depends if it's cold or hot.

Okay, So it does, we are agreed. Now why you need to ramble on about the price of cheese I have no idea.

But you know better despite never having commissioned nor been in charge of a generating plant, neve mind operated one.

Good god, the arrogance is simply astounding. I build the things from brown field to hand over. I was in charge of this particular one, I signed the commissioning papers and handed this one over. I think I might have noticed if we didn't deliver what our dear customers coughed up several million pounds for. And I think they might have noticed also that as well, i.e. a power plant that deliver peak load within two minutes.

So I'll leave the argument and send this thread to all the others in the same position as I am for a giggle.

Of course you'll leave the argument, you have nothing to offer and no knowledge of any sort of grid tied power plant whatsoever. The kind of silly little engines you say you commission would probably struggle to pull the skin off of a sausage in comparison. Now sit down and stfu clown, I've had enough of your supercilious bullschit already.

 

[Cosmik Debris]

I signed the commissioning papers and handed this one over.

As a civil engineer, you have the authority to commission an electrical generating plant?

Tell me, what was the spec for the maximum sine waveform distortion? Are your alternators brushless and what is the AVR reaction spec? Within how many milliseconds does the system react to spikes? If you commissioned the plant and were there to witness the temporary cables to the test resistor banks straightening on high load switching, you would still have these specs in your head.

Of course you'll leave the argument, you have nothing to offer and no knowledge of any sort of grid tied power plant whatsoever. The kind of silly little engines you say you commission would probably struggle to pull the skin off of a sausage in comparison. Now sit down and stfu clown, I've had enough of your supercilious bullschit already.

OK, have it your way. No reason I need to show pictures of the grid tied systems I've run. You can put your willy back in your pants now. It's inadequate.

 

[Spizz]

As a civil engineer, you have the authority to commission an electrical generating plant?

Tell me, what was the spec for the maximum sine waveform distortion? Are your alternators brushless and what is the AVR reaction spec? Within how many milliseconds does the system react to spikes? If you commissioned the plant and were there to witness the temporary cables to the test resistor banks straightening on high load switching, you would still have these specs in your head.



OK, have it your way. No reason I need to show pictures of the grid tied systems I've run. You can put your willy back in your pants now. It's inadequate.

Amazing how many fields you are an expert in. Me, I told you up front, my field is civil engineering and construction management. That means I have my own set of experts who do the construction, installation and commissioning. Maybe a surprise to you but I don’t do it all myself although no doubt you do the lot on your own as well as run the medical centre and provide a gourmet lunch in the canteen.

Honestly, I don’t think I’ve ever met anyone in all the years in here who sprafs as much BS as you. Go away now.

 

[Geoff.D]

Amazing how many fields you are an expert in. Me, I told you up front, my field is civil engineering and construction management. That means I have my own set of experts who do the construction, installation and commissioning. Maybe a surprise to you but I don’t do it all myself although no doubt you do the lot on your own as well as run the medical centre and provide a gourmet lunch in the canteen.

Honestly, I don’t think I’ve ever met anyone in all the years in here who sprafs as much BS as you. Go away now.

Yup. As I said in one of my sarcastic posts, the "dick swinging pissing contest champion".

 

[Cosmik Debris]

Amazing how many fields you are an expert in. Me, I told you up front, my field is civil engineering and construction management. That means I have my own set of experts who do the construction, installation and commissioning. Maybe a surprise to you but I don’t do it all myself although no doubt you do the lot on your own as well as run the medical centre and provide a gourmet lunch in the canteen.

Honestly, I don’t think I’ve ever met anyone in all the years in here who sprafs as much BS as you. Go away now.

Ah, of course, you have to rip the asre out of the discussion and attempt humiliation in order to manipulate the argument. Common tactic among those who rely on bluster. Seen and caught your type out many times before. The worst was a "mechanic" who blustered his way from cabin boy on a ship changing bedding.

My paramedic activities are part time and voluntary. But you may be surprised to know I am certified for working and rescue at height. Some of us have a sense of adventure and do things others won't by volunteering for courses.

So, now you signed the commissioning certificates yet had a team to do the commissioning? And you had no idea of the specs of the commissioning you were signing that the team presented to you with some figures on them? So how could you sign without knowing the parameters that should have been on the certificates handed to you? The parameters I asked in my last post which should be fresh in your head seeing the build was so recent. Admit it, you don't even have a clue what I was on about regarding the parameters.

But this gets interesting. You built the place from the ground up and accepted it? So you were the construction authority and accepted your own construction? This shows how little you actually know about commissioning a plant. The supplier/builder can never be the acceptance authority. You should stick to pouring concrete and leave the plant acceptance to those that know the laws, procedures and rules.

And you say I spew BS?

 

[Cosmik Debris]

Yup. As I said in one of my sarcastic posts, the "dick swinging pissing contest champion".

You lost that one with your unregistered first aid certificate and chemistry text book...

 

[Spizz]

Ah, of course, you have to rip the asre out of the discussion and attempt humiliation in order to manipulate the argument. Common tactic among those who rely on bluster. Seen and caught your type out many times before. The worst was a "mechanic" who blustered his way from cabin boy on a ship changing bedding.

My paramedic activities are part time and voluntary. But you may be surprised to know I am certified for working and rescue at height. Some of us have a sense of adventure and do things others won't by volunteering for courses.

So, now you signed the commissioning certificates yet had a team to do the commissioning? And you had no idea of the specs of the commissioning you were signing that the team presented to you with some figures on them? So how could you sign without knowing the parameters that should have been on the certificates handed to you? The parameters I asked in my last post which should be fresh in your head seeing the build was so recent. Admit it, you don't even have a clue what I was on about regarding the parameters.

But this gets interesting. You built the place from the ground up and accepted it? So you were the construction authority and accepted your own construction? This shows how little you actually know about commissioning a plant. The supplier/builder can never be the acceptance authority. You should stick to pouring concrete and leave the plant acceptance to those that know the laws, procedures and rules.

And you say I spew BS?

You do. I’m not even going to read your post after the first couple of lines which is no doubt your usual ego flex. You simply turned this whole thread into you after repeatedly refusing to read supplied material to the point that your arrogance took over. And now what? An attack on me because you kept introducing irrelevant BS that had nothing to do with anything.

Lol, and now glancing at the passage it’s one irrelevance after another. And all because you are incapable of accepting a simple stated fact. Nope, you had to turn it all into you. Sad little man.

Edit: okay, curiosity got the better of me and I see now that apart from not knowing what a construction manager does, you are also calling me a liar? Is that it now?

 

[Spizz]

Yup. As I said in one of my sarcastic posts, the "dick swinging pissing contest champion".

Lol, just remarkable how his sheer arrogance refuses to accept or even read stated facts and instead introduce complete irrelevance and a couple of hundred straw men to circumnavigate the issues. I can’t believe I’ve been sucked into his ego flex.

 

[semaphore]

 

[Cosmik Debris]

You do. I’m not even going to read your post after the first couple of lines which is no doubt your usual ego flex. You simply turned this whole thread into you after repeatedly refusing to read supplied material to the point that your arrogance took over. And now what? An attack on me because you kept introducing irrelevant BS that had nothing to do with anything.

Lol, and now glancing at the passage it’s one irrelevance after another. And all because you are incapable of accepting a simple stated fact. Nope, you had to turn it all into you. Sad little man.

Edit: okay, curiosity got the better of me and I see now that apart from not knowing what a construction manager does, you are also calling me a liar? Is that it now?

If you're the construction authority, you cannot be the acceptance authority, for very obvious reasons of building a piece of shid and signing off the acceptance.

Liar.

 

[Cosmik Debris]

Lol, just remarkable how his sheer arrogance refuses to accept or even read stated facts and instead introduce complete irrelevance and a couple of hundred straw men to circumnavigate the issues. I can’t believe I’ve been sucked into his ego flex.

Arrogance? Try qualifications and decades of experience. And I noticed your avoidance of pertinent questions which prove you're a fake.

 

[Spizz]

If you're the construction authority, you cannot be the acceptance authority, for very obvious reasons of building a piece of shid and signing off the acceptance.

Again your lack of knowledge shines through. I was the EPC construction manager, not the building authority ffs. I built it and handed it over to the customer for my company, the EPC contractor. That involved having a team of engineers from the various disciplines who know what they are doing, constructing and commissioning the plant, and on completion, a hand over document is produced which includes the quality assurance documents. The QA documents cover all aspects of the construction and commissioning and is a complete record of the build.

Now numb nuts, do you really think that one person is going to be personally responsible and conduct the 1000s of specialised tests conducted by the different engineers from the different disciplines including concrete slump tests, the NDT welding tests, the flange torque results, the pickling of the pipes, the butt fusion of the 14 bar fire suppression system etc etc etc?

Liar.

Cool, so that's how it is.

 

[Spizz]

Arrogance? Try qualifications and decades of experience. And I noticed your avoidance of pertinent questions which prove you're a fake.

I'm not dancing to your tune fella. Especially when you are so far wide of the mark that your questions are just plain ridiculous.

So here it is then. What would you like me to send you or supply to you that will prove I am who I say I am? I have met several people on here who know me quite well and know what I do. But no doubt that is not enough, so tell me what you want from me and I'll send it to you. You will of course not share this information with anyone, it is private.

Then when I have sent it to you, you will make a public apology in a dedicated thread and fsck off from MyBB for ever.

Let's see if your conviction is as big as your mouth.

And let's call some witnesses who I have met or communicate with regularly over the years who know me.

@Sinbad @Dave @GreGorGy @Hamish McPanji @OMB @OrbitalDawn @Paul Hjul

 

[MikeaMatrix]

So many Electrical and mechanical engineers here.

 

[Spizz]

@Cosmik Debris What's up big mouth, nothing to say all of a sudden? Pfft, call me a fake and a liar and then run and hide? To be expected I guess, but when you manage to pull yourself back together I've been looking back though emails and docs and have pulled a few pertinent ones out that will back up everything I have said.

Waiting.

 

[Cosmik Debris]

@Cosmik Debris What's up big mouth, nothing to say all of a sudden? Pfft, call me a fake and a liar and then run and hide? To be expected I guess, but when you manage to pull yourself back together I've been looking back though emails and docs and have pulled a few pertinent ones out that will back up everything I have said.

Waiting.

I don't sit here all day waiting for you to post so that I can answer. Talk about ego and arrogance.

I have stated my case several times about hot and cold start diesel engines. You carried on saying they were gas engines. All reciprocating engines are gas powered engines, no matter the fuel used. I end my correspondence here as you have invited others to a willy waving contest instead of being able to argue on your own.

Now go start your car in the freezing cold and be at full speed in 2 minutes. Tell me how it went.