Crime is a reality, says Zuma

Xarog

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How about these whites in this forum who feel that they are victims of AA policies? Surely you can't run the country and still be a victim.
Yeah, the whites are really in a conpiracy to rule, and they're all rich powerful bastards that hold the future of the nation in their palms. :rolleyes:
 

VernD

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Of course crime is a reality to Zuma; he committed a few, so he should know.
Guilty until proven inocent :confused:
Guilty by association with a convicted criminal - a relationship of a corrupt nature.

Guilty by way of prima facie evidence.

In a court of law, he would actually have to disprove his guilt instead of defending his innocence.
 

Bageloo

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Laughable. After all that has happened, you still think Zuma is an angel. How can any sane person be so deeply entrenched in denial. ROFLMFAO
No I don't think he is angel. I don't know where you got that idea from. I'm not a christian i.e. don't believe in angels.
What has happened eaxctly? I don't recall him being convicted of a crime. His corruption case was thrown out of court. Charges have not been reinstated yet, so we'll wait and see.
In another case he was acquitted of rape charges and that matter is pretty much settled.
Now you tell me what has happened that I missed.
 

xtermin8or

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Guilty by association with a convicted criminal - a relationship of a corrupt nature.

Guilty by way of prima facie evidence.

In a court of law, he would actually have to disprove his guilt instead of defending his innocence.
A relationship of a corrupt nature, and prima facie evidence, must be tested by a court of law, and the state, believed they did not have enough evidence to prove it to a court so they withdrew the charges

Conspiracy Theory:

The state under instructions from high powered members of the party, have been ordered to hold back recharging Zuma, until a time closer to the General Congress, that would effectively take Zuma out of the running, and allow Mbeki's candidate to take the Presidency. When the elections roll around next time, Zuma will be nothing more than a memory
 
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VernD

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. . .Now you tell me what has happened that I missed.
A great injustice, that's what. Him gettin acquitted on a rape case - due to mere technicalities; it doesn't mean that it didn't happen.

His corruption case thrown out of court; also due to a technicality - justice has to be served as close as possible to the crime otherwise the defendant is being unduly prejudiced due to the length of time . . blah blah blah

Can't wait for the case to be re-opened.

My 2c.
 

BobbyMac

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Conspiracy :

The state under instructions from high powered members of the party, have been ordered to hold back recharging Zuma, until a time closer to the General Congress, that would effectively take Zuma out of the running, and allow Mbeki's candidate to take the Presidency. When the elections roll around next time, Zuma will be nothing more than a memory
Any evidence of your conspiracy?
 

VernD

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Btw, if a criminal was not convicted of the crime he's commited/been accused of, does that make him less of a criminal/innocent ?
 

Bageloo

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Guilty by association with a convicted criminal - a relationship of a corrupt nature.

Guilty by way of prima facie evidence.

In a court of law, he would actually have to disprove his guilt instead of defending his innocence.
You are wrong, the prosecution will have to indroduce the prima facie evidence first. Only then he can introduces contradictory evidence. It seems they don't have that evidence yet even though Bulelani Ngcuka announced it's existence 3 years ago. They were not ready to proceed with the case after more than 5 years of investigations, applications and seizures. In fact the judge whilst anouncing the stay of presecution mentioned that the state's case had stumbled from crisis to crisis.
Have you been following this debacle at all? I know I would feel very aggrieved if I was treated the same way Zuma has been treated.
 

BobbyMac

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You are wrong, the prosecution will have to indroduce the prima facie evidence first. Only then he can introduces contradictory evidence. It seems they don't have that evidence yet even though Bulelani Ngcuka announced it's existence 3 years ago. They were not ready to proceed with the case after more than 5 years of investigations, applications and seizures. In fact the judge whilst anouncing the stay of presecution mentioned that the state's case had stumbled from crisis to crisis.
Have you been following this debacle at all? I know I would feel very aggrieved if I was treated the same way Zuma has been treated.
Please clarify when the Judge made such an announcement please.
 

Bageloo

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A great injustice, that's what. Him gettin acquitted on a rape case - due to mere technicalities; it doesn't mean that it didn't happen.
Judge V D Merwe found that sex happened but was consexual. What technicalities do you speak of ? A not guilty verdict was passed and he was not acquitted on technicalities. You are just deliberately misleading other people so as to justify you own opinion.

His corruption case thrown out of court; also due to a technicality - justice has to be served as close as possible to the crime otherwise the defendant is being unduly prejudiced due to the length of time . . blah blah blah

Can't wait for the case to be re-opened.

My 2c
In the meantime we can only discuss the merits of the case but not pass judgment as yet.
 

Bageloo

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Please clarify when the Judge made such an announcement please.
The Msimang judgment was a lengthy one so I could not read it all again but you are welcome to read it here.http://www.friendsofjz.co.za/documents/Msimang%20Judgement.pdf

There was also a report on IOL to this effect.
State 'limped from one disaster to another'

September 20 2006 at 05:09PM

By Karen Maughan and Jeremy Gordin

Jacob Zuma is a free man - for now. Judge Herbert Msimang on Wednesday said the state had left him "with no choice" but to strike off the roll the case against Zuma and French arms company Thint.

Judge Msimang first ruled against a state request for a postponement of the the corruption and fraud trial, saying its case had "limped from one disaster to another".
When the prosecution replied that it was not ready to proceed, the judge said he "no choice" but to dismiss the current indictment. The state is silent about whether and when it will recharge Zuma.

http://www.iol.co.za/index.php?set_id=1&click_id=2996&art_id=vn20060920143656971C610980
 

xtermin8or

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A great injustice, that's what. Him gettin acquitted on a rape case - due to mere technicalities; it doesn't mean that it didn't happen.

His corruption case thrown out of court; also due to a technicality - justice has to be served as close as possible to the crime otherwise the defendant is being unduly prejudiced due to the length of time . . blah blah blah

Can't wait for the case to be re-opened.

My 2c.
Please explain the technicalities you refer to
 

BobbyMac

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xtermin8or

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Sorry Bageloo, but the judge nowhere made an announcement for the stay of prosecution. If there was, then Zuma cannot be charged for this again.
Small correction, while you are correct that there was no stay of prosecution, you are wrong that that would mean that he can not be charged again, a stay of prosecution can be lifted through an application to the high court, a permanent stay of prosecution, now thats another matter
 

BobbyMac

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Small correction, while you are correct that there was no stay of prosecution, you are wrong that that would mean that he can not be charged again, a stay of prosecution can be lifted through an application to the high court, a permanent stay of prosecution, now thats another matter
Only on appeal - and only if granted the right to appeal by the court. Chances are pretty good that a permanent stay of prosecution will be granted - without such right to appeal being awarded. In any event, there was no stay of prosecution granted. The matter, for technical legal correctness' sake, was withdrawn by the prosecution.
 

xtermin8or

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Only on appeal - and only if granted the right to appeal by the court. Chances are pretty good that a permanent stay of prosecution will be granted - without such right to appeal being awarded. In any event, there was no stay of prosecution granted. The matter, for technical legal correctness' sake, was withdrawn by the prosecution.
Which still proves that there was no evidence to prove that there was a corrupt relationship, it is called exoneration
 
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