Criminal tentacles sucking SA

Bageloo

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Rubbish. A decrease in crime does not stimulate propertydemand; the desire to move out of a shack does.
There is a shortage of supply( many people no longer see the need to move to the suburbs ). When the demand is not matched by supply what happens to the prices? They rise! This is not rocket science, it's only micro economics 101.
 

BobbyMac

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There is a shortage of supply( many people no longer see the need to move to the suburbs ). When the demand is not matched by supply what happens to the prices? They rise! This is not rocket science, it's only micro economics 101.
Supply and demand is an exact science :rolleyes: So WTF does crime fit into your picture? Buffoon.
 

dlk001

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Rubbish. A decrease in crime does not stimulate property demand; the desire to move out of a shack does.
Although the boom is not entirely attributed to a decrease in crime, the change in the Banks mindset about giving township people loans has a lot to do with it.
 

BobbyMac

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Although the boom is not entirely attributed to a decrease in crime, the change in the Banks mindset about giving township people loans has a lot to do with it.
Wrong. The banks only use a credit scoring model to grant credit. If you have a solid steady income and have a fixed address, then you can qualify. Crime stats has nothing to do with a banks decision - if it did, nonewould get vehicle finance; including taxi owners
 

Bageloo

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Wrong. The banks only use a credit scoring model to grant credit. If you have a solid steady income and have a fixed address, then you can qualify. Crime stats has nothing to do with a banks decision - if it did, none would get vehicle finance; including taxi owners
Wrong again, The credit scoring models include the item for which finance is being sought. Banks don't finance taxis the way they finance private vehicles. There is a much more stringent model which includes a deposit amount of about 50 -60%.

Banks would not finance structures in a volatile area where they were likely to loose their money (Risk Management). Crime and political violence were the main causes of instabillity in the township areas. Nowadays we see the likes of Shoprite Checkers returning to the township shopping centres. All of those developments are financed by banks that no longer view township areas as risky business.
 
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dlk001

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Wrong. The banks only use a credit scoring model to grant credit. If you have a solid steady income and have a fixed address, then you can qualify. Crime stats has nothing to do with a banks decision - if it did, nonewould get vehicle finance; including taxi owners
In an ideal world, it is supposed to work like that but it didn't in South Africa. If you were the right color and came from the right surburb, you wouldn't know that the Banks discriminated against somebody from Langa, Soweto, Mdantsane, uMtata, etc. Just thought I should correct you because your perception is based on how the process normally works but not what the people from Township experienced.
 
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Leitmotif

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Please point me to the post or thread where I made such a claim. I only pointed to the study that shows that crime - murder in particular, has been decreasing from 1994. I don't know if that to you means that I'm claiming that crime is not a problem. I did not conduct the study, it was conducted by Institute of Security Studies. If you think they are a Gvt mouthpiece then read more about the nature of the organisation on their website.

iss
You can choose to dispute their findings but based on what? Based on what you read in the papers and see on TV? Yes murder rate is still very high but also more of it is being covered in the news nowadays whereas before people got killed and no one gave a damn because it was never shown on SABC news or it never made front page news on the BEELD. Perhaps it's because crime used to affect mainly people with low social status. Nowdays it affects everybody, rich or poor and hence we are seeing this outcry.
I may have misrepresented you. However, you're defending the clearly indefensible by saying that crime is going down. In a country where everyone has some story of being a victim of crime, and most can claim to have been a victim in the last year or three, the problem can't possibly be perception. These are not stories in the paper or seen on TV. These are friends and family members, and even myself.

I'm not rich. I grew up in Point, often without food and most of the time without electricity. My family and friends still living there lead lives where the danger of crime is more apparent, but overall they're subject to the same degree of crime as my more affluent friends where I live now. My outcry against crime is not based on social status, it's simply because crime everywhere has become more common.

As for the ISS... I note it doesn't say who funds them.

I however was pointing out that your statement is not fair to those who got Aids through other means other than consensual sex.
It's distracting to break down the stats into those who are infected through no fault of their own and those who manage to get themselves infected and then carry on to infect others. You understand my point, and I'll add that I do feel compassion for those who suffer brutality and then have to live with the mark of disease and the stigma of AIDS.

Although I think you came across as insensitive to other suffers, you have a interesting perception on this.
We can't afford to be sensitive. We must be practical. Being sensitive in the sense which you mean will only cause more harm. Compassion perhaps. Sensitivity, no.

It might take a complete psychopath to sort this mess out.
 

dlk001

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We can't afford to be sensitive. We must be practical. Being sensitive in the sense which you mean will only cause more harm. Compassion perhaps. Sensitivity, no.

It might take a complete psychopath to sort this mess out.
I disagree with you but like I said, you have an interesting perception. I don't think being a complete psychopath solves many problems. My opinion though!
 

bekdik

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Its much easier to walk through the front door, point a gun to your face and take the TV, than to break in at night, try not wake anyone and quietly leave with the TV.

Yup, even the criminals are becoming incompetent! :D
 

dlk001

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There is a shortage of supply( many people no longer see the need to move to the suburbs ). When the demand is not matched by supply what happens to the prices? They rise! This is not rocket science, it's only micro economics 101.
Again, there's more to that. People no longer see the need to move to suburbs because crime and levels of service delivery have improved in the Townships. There's a lot still need to be done but most people are content with the issues above versus the time when group areas act was lifted and people felt the need to move out.
 

Bageloo

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I do agree, Crime has been in the townships for years, and now its just moving to the suburbs - Does that mean I have to accept the crime level?
No you don't have to accept it. I also don't accept it. But according to the official stats crime has been decreasing. Because the levels were much higher before it will take some time before the levels become acceptable.
Housing demand is up 'cos of Secure complexes being built - NOT less crime.
And why were no Secure complexes being built before???
 

Syndyre

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Nope, I don't think so. Because banks would not finance developments in crime/violence ridden townships.
It depends, as long as the development is insured the bank isn't the one the stands to lose, the insurance company is. Whether they're crime/violence ridden or not there's still a large captive market there.
 

Bageloo

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It depends, as long as the development is insured the bank isn't the one the stands to lose, the insurance company is. Whether they're crime/violence ridden or not there's still a large captive market there.
Banks/insurance companies, it's the same people. Outsurance/momentum/Fnb, Old Mutual/Nedbank, Liberty/STD bank etc. Their risk management models were discrimanatory to the townships hence there were no developments there. That has changed however and that change is largely due to the stable envrionment that now prevails.
 
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Syndyre

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Banks/insurance companies, it's the same people. Outsurance/Fnb, Old Mutual/Nedbank, Liberty/STD bank etc. Their risk management models were discrimanatory to the townships hence there were no developments there. That has changed however and that change is largely due to the stable envrionment that now prevails.
True, is that due to political stability or lower crime though?
 
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