Criminal tentacles sucking SA

[Bageloo]

True, is that due to political stability or lower crime though?

political instability manifested itself in various forms of criminal activity. Vandalism, looting, gun running, murders, necklacing, robberies, burning down of property. There was once a term coined in DBN that refered to criminal elements amongst the UDF, They were called the "comtsotsis", a combination of comrade + tsosi . Of course today's crime is also closely related to socio-political and socio-economic problems.

 

[Syndyre]

political instability manifested itself in various forms of criminal activity. Vandalism, looting, gun running, murders, necklacing, robberies, burning down of property. There was once a term coined in DBN that refered to criminal elements amongst the UDF, They were called the "comtsotsis", a combination of comrade + tsosi . Of course today's crime is also closely related to socio-political and socio-economic problems.

That crime has at least been eliminated, I'm just not sure if the more "normal" crime, for want of a better word, has decreased.

 

[BobbyMac]

That crime has at least been eliminated, I'm just not sure if the more "normal" crime, for want of a better word, has decreased.

According to the contentious and very old stats therehas been a somewhat decrease in some crimes while others have increased. Not enoughto suggest a significant decreas to substantate bageloos points.

Kwa Mashu stats [official SAPS stats for 2005/2006]
Murder - 242 (down somewhat from previous yr)
Rape - 555 (big increase from previous yr)
Attempted murder - 246 (somewhat up from prev yr)
Assault - 2447 (silght decrease)

All drug related crims were up. Hijackings were marginally down.

Not really aplace I want to live. None of these stats backup bageloos attempted points either.

 

[Bageloo]

According to the contentious and very old stats therehas been a somewhat decrease in some crimes while others have increased. Not enoughto suggest a significant decreas to substantate bageloos points.

Kwa Mashu stats [official SAPS stats for 2005/2006]
Murder - 242 (down somewhat from previous yr)
Rape - 555 (big increase from previous yr)
Attempted murder - 246 (somewhat up from prev yr)
Assault - 2447 (silght decrease)

All drug related crims were up. Hijackings were marginally down.

Not really aplace I want to live. None of these stats backup bageloos attempted points either.

what would be useful though is stats showing the trend from '94 onwards. we can then see whether the township has become safer or more dangerous. I was only talking about the perception I get whenever I'm in the area. The stats could disagree with my perception, which would mean that my perception was not representative of the whole area. And I think the same thing might be happening nationaly. People might have localised perceptions of crime only to find that when the stats are aggregated for the whole country the result is different to what is to be expected.

 

[Syndyre]

What automatically makes the stats right and yours or anybody else's perception wrong?

 

[BobbyMac]

what would really be useful is regular statsics given out diretly by the Police stations every 3 months for the past three months, and consolidated provincial stats for a six month peroid along with national stats for tjhe same period. Stats from more than a year ago will never reflect current trends, perceptions and crime spikes. In fact, the way current statistics are shown ther is no way to see any crime spikes for a period or region/neighborhood.

 

[Syndyre]

what would really be useful is regular statsics given out diretly by the Police stations every 3 months for the past three months, and consolidated provincial stats for a six month peroid along with national stats for tjhe same period. Stats from more than a year ago will never reflect current trends, perceptions and crime spikes. In fact, the way current statistics are shown ther is no way to see any crime spikes for a period or region/neighborhood.

What about a massive spreadsheet from each station showing the daily totals for each crime, divided into specific sectors or areas per station. That'll give people the truth about what's going on, assuming its not manipulated. Allow people access to more detailed data, as well as summaries.

 

[BobbyMac]

What about a massive spreadsheet from each station showing the daily totals for each crime, divided into specific sectors or areas per station. That'll give people the truth about what's going on, assuming its not manipulated. Allow people access to more detailed data, as well as summaries.

that will be ideal

 

[icyrus]

Of course today's crime is also closely related to socio-political and socio-economic problems.

Do you perhaps have any proof of that? It would be an interesting read.

 

[Leitmotif]

What about a massive spreadsheet from each station showing the daily totals for each crime, divided into specific sectors or areas per station. That'll give people the truth about what's going on, assuming its not manipulated. Allow people access to more detailed data, as well as summaries.

That would be perfect, but I can work with just getting weekly or monthly totals. The cops don't need the extra work.

 

[Bageloo]

Do you perhaps have any proof of that? It would be an interesting read.

If some of the social, political and economic problems can be addressed, the country would have won half the battle against crime.
(This is my own opinion about some of the socio-economic and political solutions. I don;t have proof that this would work but it is based on my own understanding of the problem)
1. address unemployment situation (very complex)
2. tighten the borders with Zimbabwe/Mozabique/Swaziland, deport all the illegal immigrants
3. root out corruption amongst SAPS/home affairs officials
4. replace Selebi with someone who is not a friend of the criminals
5. build more prisons so that there won't be any need for presidential pardon

 

[Syndyre]

Sounds like a good start.

 

[Bageloo]

Sounds like a good start.

before anyone accusses me of being xenophobic

JOHANNESBURG
Illegal immigrants crime culprits - study
Posted Mon, 12 Apr 2004

Foreign criminals are responsible for a large proportion of the serious crimes committed in South Africa, according to an article in Rapport on Sunday.

Thousands of illegal immigrants are convicted every year in South Africa for crimes such as robbery, murder, rape and drug-trafficking, a study from the Strategic Studies Institute at the University of Pretoria has found.

A professor at the institute, Mike Hough, said almost a quarter of the cases in the Johannesburg Magistrate's Court in January 2004 involved foreigners, and the number was increasing all the time.

He said most of the foreign criminals were Zimbabweans, who were generally involved in bank robberies, fraud and drug-related offences. Nigerians were the second most common culprits, often for drug-related crimes. Mozambicans came third, convicted of robbery and fraud.

Police were not able to verify these results because at present the South African Police Service (SAPS) did not maintain that sort of data, said Captain Ronnie Naidoo, national police spokesperson.

"Unfortunately I can't give you an answer. We don't keep statistics on foreigners," he said on Sunday.

He said police did record the nationality of the criminals they arrested, but it was not collated.

The last study done by the SAPS was in 1994, which found 12 670 illegal immigrants involved in serious crimes.

Although they are often sent back to their countries of origin, many end up in South African prisons, said Hough.

Hough estimated that at present R344 458 a day was spent keeping foreigners in prison.

He said his study was not trying to increase xenophobia in South Africa, but that there were signs of "foreign involvement in the South African crime scene".

Sapa

http://iafrica.com/news/sa/86214.htm

 

[dlk001]

1. address unemployment situation (very complex)
2. tighten the borders with Zimbabwe/Mozabique/Swaziland, deport all the illegal immigrants
3. root out corruption amongst SAPS/home affairs officials
4. replace Selebi with someone who is not a friend of the criminals
5. build more prisons so that there won't be any need for presidential pardon

Good points Bageloo.

 

[Leitmotif]

before anyone accusses me of being xenophobic

http://iafrica.com/news/sa/86214.htm

You're not going to get much argument about xenophobia here...

 

[Tamagotchi]

If some of the social, political and economic problems can be addressed, the country would have won half the battle against crime.
(This is my own opinion about some of the socio-economic and political solutions. I don;t have proof that this would work but it is based on my own understanding of the problem)
1. address unemployment situation (very complex)
2. tighten the borders with Zimbabwe/Mozabique/Swaziland, deport all the illegal immigrants
3. root out corruption amongst SAPS/home affairs officials
4. replace Selebi with someone who is not a friend of the criminals
5. build more prisons so that there won't be any need for presidential pardon

Does # 5 not solve problem #1 and # 2 in a small way (more prisons = employment in construction = employment as prison gaurds = employment as border police )

 

[dlk001]

You're not going to get much argument about xenophobia here...

True. Maybe we all agree on the matter of tightening the boarders and reducing illegal immigrants.

 

[Bageloo]

Does # 5 not solve problem #1 and # 2 in a small way (more prisons = employment in construction = employment as prison gaurds = employment as border police )

Like I said #1 is the most complex of these soltions. We need more than just incidental windfall employment opportunities. We need a macro economic plan that would put more emphasis on job creation for people that are currently unemployable. The ppl with no skills and very little education. Unfortunately such palns do not bear imidiate fruits. At the moment there is no concrete plan by GVt as to how they will alleviate poverty.

 

[supersunbird]

True. Maybe we all agree on the matter of tightening the boarders and reducing illegal immigrants.

So you are the guy that painter that sign "Boarder Control" at Gateway International Airport...

 

[dlk001]

So you are the guy that painter that sign "Boarder Control" at Gateway International Airport...

Neh, I'm the dude walking around with a sniffer dog at Perth International.