Crisis in Ukraine

[LazyLion]

DEBALTSEVE UNDER REBEL CONTROL, COSSACKS PREDOMINATE
By PETER LEONARD

Debaltseve appeared to be largely under the control of rebels Thursday, a day after Ukrainian forces began withdrawing from the besieged town.

Associated Press journalists who drove around about half the town found that all neighborhoods were under the control of rebel fighters, most of them appearing to be Cossacks.

Nikolai Kozitsyn, a Russian Cossack leader who has been a prominent warlord in separatist eastern Ukraine, was seen driving around in a Humvee-like vehicle that had been captured from Ukrainian troops.

Cossack fighters laughed, hugged each other and posed for photos.

But one car carrying Cossacks hit a land mine about 200 meters from the journalists, killing one Cossack and injuring one other.

A Ukrainian military spokesman said Thursday that more than 90 percent of its forces have been withdrawn from Debaltseve and its surroundings, but left unclear when the retreat might be completed.

Military spokesman Anatoliy Stelmakh also said that rebels heavily shelled a village on the outskirts of the port city of Mariupol during the last day.

Ukrainian troops began abandoning Debaltseve on Wednesday after weeks of heavy fighting. Control of the town is a significant strategic gain for the rebels because it is a railway junction and straddles the most direct route between Donetsk and Luhansk, the separatist region's two major cities.

The battle for Debaltseve had continued to rage despite a cease-fire that was called into effect on Sunday.

In Paris, French President Francois Hollande said he and German Chancellor Angela Merkel spoke Thursday with the leaders of Ukraine and Russia about cease-fire violations and their consequences.

He did not elaborate on the discussion.


Source : Sapa-AP /mr
Date : 19 Feb 2015 12:52

 

[w1z4rd]

DEBALTSEVE UNDER REBEL CONTROL, COSSACKS PREDOMINATE
By PETER LEONARD

Debaltseve appeared to be largely under the control of rebels Thursday, a day after Ukrainian forces began withdrawing from the besieged town.

Associated Press journalists who drove around about half the town found that all neighborhoods were under the control of rebel fighters, most of them appearing to be Cossacks.

Nikolai Kozitsyn, a Russian Cossack leader who has been a prominent warlord in separatist eastern Ukraine, was seen driving around in a Humvee-like vehicle that had been captured from Ukrainian troops.

Cossack fighters laughed, hugged each other and posed for photos.

But one car carrying Cossacks hit a land mine about 200 meters from the journalists, killing one Cossack and injuring one other.

A Ukrainian military spokesman said Thursday that more than 90 percent of its forces have been withdrawn from Debaltseve and its surroundings, but left unclear when the retreat might be completed.

Military spokesman Anatoliy Stelmakh also said that rebels heavily shelled a village on the outskirts of the port city of Mariupol during the last day.

Ukrainian troops began abandoning Debaltseve on Wednesday after weeks of heavy fighting. Control of the town is a significant strategic gain for the rebels because it is a railway junction and straddles the most direct route between Donetsk and Luhansk, the separatist region's two major cities.

The battle for Debaltseve had continued to rage despite a cease-fire that was called into effect on Sunday.

In Paris, French President Francois Hollande said he and German Chancellor Angela Merkel spoke Thursday with the leaders of Ukraine and Russia about cease-fire violations and their consequences.

He did not elaborate on the discussion.


Source : Sapa-AP /mr
Date : 19 Feb 2015 12:52

Sad, another town lost to the Russian invasion.

 

[Xarog]

Russia doesn't need to because they already have established forms of mass communication and propaganda operating in Ukraine due the the historical ties of the two countries. Had it not been for the Russian propaganda machine fanning the flames after a couple of right-wing idiots made stupid statements we would probably be looking at a completely different situation to what is currently going on in Ukraine. One with at least another 5000 more people still alive.

One could just as easily say had it not been for the U.S. propaganda machine fanning the flames surrounding the EU articles of association then we'd also have an alternative situation where 5000 would not have died in vain. And the right-wing idiots did more than just talk.

 

[Unhappy438]

Russia doesn't need to because they already have established forms of mass communication and propaganda operating in Ukraine due the the historical ties of the two countries. Had it not been for the Russian propaganda machine fanning the flames after a couple of right-wing idiots made stupid statements we would probably be looking at a completely different situation to what is currently going on in Ukraine. One with at least another 5000 more people still alive.

Im glad there are still voices of reason in this thread.

 

[Xarog]

Sad, another town lost to the Russian invasion.

But fortunately the soldiers are alive.

 

[Xarog]

Im glad there are still voices of reason in this thread.

You say that like the situation actually needed Russian propaganda to get out of hand.

 

[mic_y]

You say that like the situation actually needed Russian propaganda to get out of hand.

Can you deny that the Russian media (propaganda) machine made sure that any of the statements made by right-wing nuts were made to look a lot more serious than the hot air that it was in reality.

Please provide me with at least some proof of the fact that the statement that it was not just talk.

 

[Xarog]

Can you deny that the Russian media (propaganda) machine made sure that any of the statements made by right-wing nuts were made to look a lot more serious than the hot air that it was in reality.

No, I have no doubt that the Russian media portrayed the Junta in the most negative light it could. But the Odessa Massacre speaks for itself, too.

Thirty-two people died whilst trapped in the burning Trade Unions House; twenty-three from carbon monoxide poisoning, and eight after leaping from windows to escape the flames.[37] In total, forty-three people died in one day as a result of the clashes.[38] Police said at least three people were shot dead.[39][40][41] Hospital staff reported that 174 were injured, and 25 were in critical condition.[42] 172 people were reported arrested as a result of the conflict, and 38 pro-Russian militants were arrested by police after they had evacuated the burning building.[10][43]

A TSN correspondent reported that of those who died in the fire, fifteen were Russian citizens, and five were from Transnistria.[44] Odessa City Council deputy Dmitry Spivak also said that some of the rioters were from Transnistria.[45] The Interior Ministry stated that the identity of most of the victims had not been determined on 2 May, despite these reports.[46] On the day after the clashes, the Odessa office of the Interior Ministry issued another statement saying that eight of those who died in the fire were identified, and that all of them were from Odessa.[47] It was later determined that all of those who died in the fire were from Odessa.[48]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2_May_2014_Odessa_clashes#Casualties

Edit: As a side note, it's interesting to see just how early the whole "it's not Ukrainians it's Russians" propaganda started.

Please provide me with at least some proof of the fact that the statement that it was not just talk.

I'm not quite sure what you are referring to here.

 

[Unhappy438]

Russia accuses Ukraine of aiming to destroy Minsk accords

Russia's UN ambassador Vitaly Churkin has denounced Ukraine's call for the deployment of UN peacekeepers in eastern Ukraine as a destructive move.

The Ukrainian president's call "raises suspicions that he wants to destroy the Minsk accords", Mr Churkin said.

The Minsk ceasefire deal was reached a week ago but fighting round the strategic town of Debaltseve saw the withdrawal of Ukrainian troops there.

Shelling significantly increased in the rebel-held city of Donetsk on Thursday.

And Ukrainian officials reported mortar attacks by separatists on the coastal town of Shirokyne, near Mariupol.

'Violation'
Mr Churkin accused Ukrainian President Petro Poroshenko of seeking a new scheme instead of doing what he had signed up to.

"If one proposes new schemes right away, the question arises whether [the accords] will be respected", he said.

The leadership of the self-proclaimed Donetsk People's Republic described the call for peacekeepers as a violation of the Minsk accords.

The leaders of Russia, Ukraine, Germany and France, the four parties to the Minsk accords, held further talks over the phone on Thursday.

The French presidency said the ceasefire breaches were denounced and the leaders called for "the implementation of the full package of measures agreed in Minsk" including a full ceasefire, withdrawal of heavy weapons and the release of prisoners.

Mr Poroshenko called for UN-mandated peacekeepers to enforce the ceasefire after fighting continued following the rebel advance on Debaltseve.

A police mission by the European Union would be the best format for a peacekeeping operation, Mr Poroshenko said on his website.

It would help guarantee security "in a situation where the promise of peace is not being kept", he told an emergency meeting of Ukraine's national security and defence council.

Could a peacekeeping force help to secure the ceasefire in eastern Ukraine?

Well for a start there would need to be a functioning ceasefire; nobody is going to send troops into an active war zone. Just getting agreement at the UN for such a force might be an insurmountable diplomatic hurdle.

Russia - with a key veto power on the Security Council - is not just an interested bystander. Despite its denials, it is seen by Ukraine and the West as an active participant in the conflict.

An effective peacekeeping force paradoxically might be in nobody's interests. Peacekeepers tend to fix battle lines in place. In Ukraine both sides probably have further ambitions on the ground. The Russian-backed separatists may well want to advance further and the Ukrainian government's forces certainly aspire to take back territory that they have lost.

Many experts fear there is a lot more fighting to be done whether this ceasefire is implemented or not.

line
Nearly 2,500 Ukrainian soldiers withdrew from Debaltseve on Wednesday.

Mr Poroshenko said the withdrawal had been organised, but that at least six soldiers were killed and more than 100 wounded.

Earlier, a senior Ukrainian military official said 22 Ukrainian soldiers had died in Debaltseve over the past three days. Rebel claims of a much higher figure have been dismissed by the government.

Under threat
The ceasefire, which officially came into effect on Sunday, has reportedly seen some heavy weaponry withdrawn by both sides.

However, the BBC's Ian Pannell in Donetsk reported a significant increase in shelling on Thursday, with artillery fire shaking buildings in the city centre.

Meanwhile Ukrainian military spokesman Anatoliy Stelmakh said rebels had attacked the town of Shirokyne with tanks and weaponry.

After the fall of Debaltseve the peace agreement appears to be under serious threat, our correspondent says.

Earlier rebel spokesman Eduard Basurin said Debaltseve was now "completely under the control" of the separatists, with just "scattered" pockets of resistance that were being "neutralised".

He claimed that more than 300 government soldiers had been taken prisoner. Ukraine's government admitted some troops were being held.

Nato chief Jens Stoltenberg said the rebels' offensive had put the wider peace agreement at risk.

The White House said both the rebels and Russia had failed to live up to the terms of the Minsk agreement.

But Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov insisted the rebels' actions in Debaltseve had not violated the ceasefire because it was a rebel-held city at the time of the agreement.

Most of the city's 25,000 population has been evacuated but about 5,000 civilians are still believed to be in the town.

Fighting began in eastern Ukraine in April, a month after Russia annexed the Crimea peninsula.

The UN says more than 5,600 people have been killed, but there are fears the actual death toll could be much higher.

Ukraine's pro-Western government says Russia is supporting the separatists with troops and weapons, but the Kremlin has consistently denied this.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-31530252

 

[Unhappy438]

^^ The Russian government is living in an alternative reality and aren't interested in peace at all.

 

[Albereth]

If there is a cease fire, why would there be any objection to peacekeepers?

 

[Unhappy438]

If there is a cease fire, why would there be any objection to peacekeepers?

Because Russia doesn't want peace.

 

[Jola]

Very suspicious, why would they not want UN peacekeepers?

Russia is up to no good here, as it has been all along.

 

[Xarog]

^^ The Russian government is living in an alternative reality and aren't interested in peace at all.

Because they're trying to protect what little peace currently exists? While I think peacekeepers from a 3rd party is a good idea it would be bad if the attempts to negotiate an agreement over the peacekeepers ended up torpedoing the Minsk agreements.

 

[w1z4rd]

Russia most likely too poor and underskilled to build new aircraft carrier.

 

[w1z4rd]

Ex porn star used and lied about by Russian propaganda speaks out. (yup, thats how low theyve sunk...)

 

[Albereth]

Because Russia doesn't want peace.

Rhetorical question was rhetorical.

 

[Unhappy438]

Rhetorical question was rhetorical.

Sorry i can never tell in this thread anymore, its largely descended into comedy.

 

[Xarog]

Russia most likely too poor and underskilled to build new aircraft carrier.

Sounds very similar to the stories a few months ago that Russia's economy was doomed or that Russia was selling off all it's gold yada yada yada. No, wait, the article explicitly refers to Russia's economy in "free fall". Maybe the blogger in question would like to check some of his facts. Last week data released showed that the Russian stock market has been the strongest performer world-wide.

 

[Xarog]

Ex porn star used and lied about by Russian propaganda speaks out. (yup, thats how low theyve sunk...)

Already been posted. Btw, what's the donation count up to?