Crisis in Ukraine

OrbitalDawn

OrbitalDawn

Ulysses Everett McGill
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Anti-Russia protesters not Neo-Nazis: Ukraine Jews

Russia may accuse the protesters who toppled Ukraine's pro-Moscow government of being "fascists" and "neo-Nazis" but the country's Jews insist they have seen no trace of anti-Semitism.

Moscow was quick to slam the Maidan protesters as extremists bent on waging war against ethnic Russians, and media in Russia -- much of it influenced by the Kremlin -- has carried repeated reports of Russians fleeing Ukraine, claiming both they and Jews are at risk of violence.

But according to Ukraine's chief rabbi Moshe Reuven Asman, there isn't a hint of anti-Jewish sentiment -- either on the Maidan square, where protesters have camped out for four months, or elsewhere in the country.

Just to be sure, he and Vadim Rabinovich, the president of the Congress of Ukrainian Jews, phoned around to get local confirmation.

"We called community leaders and rabbis across the country and noone mentioned any expression of anti-Semitism," said Asman.

"There's a difference between nationalism and Nazism," he also pointed out, as Moscow has repeatedly blended the two.

The president of the Council of Ukrainian Jews, Ilya Levitas, and Berl Kapulkin, spokesman for the Jewish community in the largely Russian-speaking port of Odessa, came to the same conclusion.

On the one occasion when a petrol bomb was thrown at a synagogue in the southwestern town of Zaporizhia in February, leaders of the Maidan movement were quick to offer the local Jewish community their support and protection, Kapulkin said.

A swastika was recently daubed on the walls of the synagogue in Crimea's capital Simferopol, but "we don't know who did that -- the pro- or the anti-Russians," he added, insisting there was no anti-Jewish violence in the peninsula.

The history of Jews in Ukraine has been a bloody one with pogroms in the 19th and early 20th century. About one million were killed during the occupation by Nazi Germany, including by Ukrainian nationalist collaborators.

In the most notorious massacre, close to 34,000 Jews were killed in just two days at Babi Yar in western Kiev in September 1941.

But with the fall of the Soviet Union, some 250,000 Jews left the country for Israel and anti-Semitism has seen a gradual decline.

Evgueni Kvatchov, 22, a recent university graduate, dismissed any concerns about his religion.

"I have never noticed any case of anti-Semitism, never. But of course, it could have been different if I walked around with curls (as worn by orthodox Jews)," he told AFP in Kiev.

A few years ago, the leader of the nationalist party Svoboda in Ukraine's interim government, Oleg Tyagnybok, was slammed by the Simon Wiesenthal Centre for anti-Semitic slurs. Now even he refrains from such comments.

Faced with an escalating stand-off between Moscow and Kiev over Ukraine's separatist Crimean peninsula, which is widely expected to vote in favour of joining Russia in a referendum on Sunday, Jewish groups say their overriding priority is to avoid violence.

"We want there to be negotiations. We want the politicians to talk. We are praying for peace," said Asman.

Fed up with Moscow's allegations, leaders of Ukraine's Jewish community -- the third largest in Europe at around 300,000 -- sent a blunt petition to Russian President Vladimir Putin last week.

"Russian-speakers in Ukraine are not the subject of victimisation and harassment and their rights are not being curtailed," it said, accusing the Kremlin of deliberately fomenting fear.

"We believe that talk of 'fascists', a rise in 'followers of Bandera' (a nationalist who collaborated with the Nazis during World War II) and the return of Jewish pogroms is intended to frighten people," said the signatories, who included businessmen and artists as well as the president of the federation of Jewish organisations in Ukraine, Iosif Zisels.

"The claim... that there is rising anti-Semitism in Ukraine does not in any way correspond with reality."

While Kiev kept a close eye on nationalists in Ukraine, "the same cannot be said of neo-fascists in Russia who are given official encouragement," the petition concluded, calling on Putin to "stop interfering in Ukraine and encouraging pro-Russian separatism".
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Unhappy438

Unhappy438

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USA has also invested money in South Africa, that doesn't mean they funded Marikana.

HDS said:
And even then, where does this money come from? to be able to pay protesters hundreds of thousands dollahs a day.
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What about from opposition parties? Are you aware of the number of billionaires in Ukraine? Are you also aware that the Ukraine government paid pro Ukrainian protesters. Do you have any proof that USA paid these people to attend protests or are you just continuing to fabricate things.


HDS said:
Who exactly did she provide a statement to? Who will investigate it? Does a person who replies with :
want to investigate the shootings, while they are clearly not in EU's favour?
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Maybe Russia should investigate these claims then, until concrete evidence is provided we shouldnt jump to conclusions. Even if this claim were to be true, it still doesn't prove that the USA funded the uprising.

HDS said:
The shootings were organised by somebody from the new coalition. Who does the US support, if not them...
Should be evident enough from what happened in the past.
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Gosh you just love fabricating things don't you.

HDS said:
LOL that is the biggest joke I heard in a while. EU media are the biggest twisters of truth you will see. They are liars. The one side of the story that benifits them will be reported.

If you think Russian newspapers are the only ones filled with propaganda you are clueless.
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Ah now i see we have comprehension failure, i said what both sides report is generally bias, but the Russian government censors and blocks opposition media and their own media. The western governments don't do this, that's telling.
 
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H

HDS

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Unhappy438 said:
USA has also invested money in South Africa, that doesn't mean they funded Marikana.



What about from opposition parties? Are you aware of the number of billionaires in Ukraine? Are you also aware that the Ukraine government paid pro Ukrainian protesters. Do you have any proof that USA paid these people to attend protests or are you just continuing to fabricate things.




Maybe Russia should investigate these claims then, until concrete evidence is provided we shouldnt jump to conclusions. Even if this claim were to be true, it still doesn't prove that the USA funded the uprising.



Gosh you just love fabricating things don't you.



Ah now i see we have comprehension failure, i said what both sides report is generally bias, but the Russian government censors and blocks opposition media and their own media. The western governments don't do this, that's telling.
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Good job on completely ignoring my links. Instead actually reading and listening the info I put forth, you accuse me of fabricating these things. Not sure if stupid or just completely ignorant.
 
Unhappy438

Unhappy438

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HDS said:
Good job on completely ignoring my links. Instead actually reading and listening the info I put forth, you accuse me of fabricating these things. Not sure if stupid or just completely ignorant.
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Good job on completely ignoring my counter points, you're yet to post any evidence that USA funded the uprising. You've only managed to post youtube videos containing wild conjecture and the fact that you keep resorting to ad hominems speaks volumes about the argument you've built on sand.
 
H

HDS

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Unhappy438 said:
Good job on completely ignoring my counter points, you're yet to post any evidence that USA funded the uprising. You've only managed to post youtube videos containing wild conjecture and the fact that you keep resorting to ad hominems speaks volumes about the argument you've built on sand.
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How can you make counter arguments if you haven't even read/watched info on my argument? Wild conjecture? People admitting to being paid to protest against the Ukrainian government is wild conjecture?

Perhaps read some reason before blindly following the western media like a sheep.

One reader wrote: "My wife, who is of Ukrainian nationality, has weekly contact to her parents and friends in Zhytomyr [NW Ukraine]. According to them, most protesters get an average payment of 200-300 grivna, corresponding to about 15-25 euro. As I additionally heard, one of the most active agencies and 'payment outlets' on EU side is the German 'Konrad Adenauer Stiftung', being closely connected to the CDU, i.e. Mrs. Merkel's party."

Johannes Loew of the Internet site elynitthria.net/ writes: "I am just back from Ukraine (I live in Munich/Germany) and I was a lot at the Maidan. Most of those people get only 100 grivna. 300 is for Students."
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^^Also taken from Paul Craig.

Talk about argument built on sand...lol. Unless you start replying with something other than accusing me of fabricating these things I won't waste my time on replying back.
 
Polymathic

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I don't trust anything Russian State Media says. the fact that Putin is supressing the independent media in that country speaks volumes.
 
Unhappy438

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HDS said:
How can you make counter arguments if you haven't even read/watched info on my argument? Wild conjecture? People admitting to being paid to protest against the Ukrainian government is wild conjecture?
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I have read and watched your videos, i replied about who could be supplying the protesters with money besides the US. I also pointed out that even if the claim about the shooters was true that's still not proof that the US funded the uprising, perhaps you missed all that.

HDS said:
Perhaps read some reason before blindly following the western media like a sheep.
^^Also taken from Paul Craig.
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Paul Craig, 9/11 conspiracy nutter? http://www.fontcraft.com/idiotwars/?p=21

HDS said:
Talk about argument built on sand...lol. Unless you start replying with something other than accusing me of fabricating these things I won't waste my time on replying back.
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Except i haven't only accused you of fabricating things ( which you have) , i've given you valid responses to the points you've raised. You've chosen to ignore them though.

mmmig said:
I don't trust anything Russian State Media says. the fact that Putin is supressing the independent media in that country speaks volumes.
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A point ive been trying to make to HDS, its been ignored though.
 
Garson007

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Unhappy438 said:
90% of my posts in this thread are news reports with no opinion of my own, so try again.
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[-]Posting opinion articles are in fact not news or facts, but opinion.[/-]
Nevermind. I seemed to have confused you for a hundred other Russiaphobes I've encountered.

Hasn't prevented you from being biased in your reporting, with some very lax fact-checking.
 
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Unhappy438

Unhappy438

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Garson007 said:
Posting opinion articles are in fact not news or facts, but opinion.
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Which ones and 90%?

Garson007 said:
[-]Posting opinion articles are in fact not news or facts, but opinion.[/-]
Nevermind. I seemed to have confused you for a hundred other Russiaphobes I've encountered.

Hasn't prevented you from being biased in your reporting, with some very lax fact-checking.
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Ive often put a disclaimer warning about no English sources, i use Ukrainian news sources because they are often the first to report the news. You're more than welcome to point out the lax fact checking and i can correct or clarify it?
 
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Unhappy438

Unhappy438

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