Damn, I shouldn't have watched this Canon 60 D video

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surfs-up

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My trip to the USA is nearing - I leave next week, and was firmly confident that I would buy a new Canon 7D package with extra's.....

But then....last night, I stumbled across this video on the Canon 60 D, and I am now totally indecisive. Awesome video, that would leave anyone spellbound

http://snapsort.com/video/eQLwdD9BstY/60d-Promo-Video-and-Review-Shot-with-Canon-DSLRs

I love the fact that it has the tilting screen - I have a new Canon SX30 IS, with the same articulated screen. It makes shooting from belly level very stable, using the neckstrap to give excellent stability. And also allows you to shoot above the crowds, or at ground level. It also has very similar specs to the 7D that I was looking for - like 1/8000 shutter speed, and has same 18mp sensor.
Only things against the 60D that I see are: more plasticy body, fewer AF points, slightly fewer f/ps.

What the hell do I do now ? Money is not the issue, I will happily pay more for the 7D, but the 60D is a newer product with some neat features

:confused:
 
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surfs-up

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Dolby said:
... Then pay more for the 7D ;)
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I will gladly do that....but at the end of the day, will the 7D take any better pictures than the 60D, when using the same lens ? It uses the same sensor afterall..
 
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bwana

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If you're in it for the video then I'd say the 60D is the better choice.
 
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The construction is not the same, but as bwana will surely attest, even the low end xxxD's construction is good enough to take a fair beating. The AF on the 60D is also a cut above the xxxD, even if it has the same number of AF points. The difference is that, on the xxD series, they're all cross type, where on the xxxD series only the center one is. I can tell you from experience, the AF on the xxD bodies is quick and accurate, and very capable in low light (better than the 7D is doing so far for me).
 
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...

2. The next thing to consider is that the 7D has dual DIGIC 4 processors. The processor is the brains of the camera and having 2 of them dramatically speeds up the pace at which the camera can shoot, and write images to the memory card. This is the main reason that we see a shooting speed of 8FPS on the 7d and only 5.3FPS on the 60D. Its also responsible for the much higher JPEG buffer on the 7d. Having dual DIGIC 4 also leaves power left over to handle image processing and control noise reduction in high ISO images, the result of which will be better low light performance in the 7D images even though they are using the same APS-C 18MP sensor. So speed and ISO performance are the next things to consider, do you want to shoot sports ? Do yo want to shoot indoors a lot, or at night ? If you answered yes to either of those, and pure image quality is a priority then the 7D would be my choice. In my experience the difference between 5.3 and 8FPS in shooting speed feels like even more than a 2.7FPS difference.

3. Autofocus sensors also differ greatly between these cameras so again this one is going to be important to consider if you want to shoot faster moving subjects like sports, or wildlife that might be running/flying. The 60D features 9 AF points and the 7D features 19 AF points. On top of this the “brains” of the 7Ds AF sensor are far more advanced and include more specific focus modes like zone and spot AF focusing. The 7Ds AF system is far more “intelligent” whereas the 60D really maintains the same system from the fairly dated 50D.

...

Conclusions

Which one to buy then? Purely my opinions here but I would say that if you are looking at either of these purely for shooting video then the manual audio and flip out screen gives the 60D the edge with 2 caveats. Firstly you have to be planning on not shooting the videos in extreme low light and secondly not shooting in inclement weather conditions. If either of those two things are likely then the 7D takes the lead again. If you are looking at either camera just for shooting photos then the 7D is the hands down winner. Faster, better low light, better AF and 100% viewfinder. I think the $400 difference in price is justified in that respect. Now for the tricky part, you want to shoot both stills and video in equal amounts….. this will come down to your preferred subject matter. If you shoot wildlife and sports then the 7D will give your photos the edge. If its just landscape photos where AF speed is not a factor then I think you will find the 60D a very competent camera.
Click to expand...

http://dancarrphotography.com/blog/2010/08/27/canon-60d-vs-7d/
 
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bwana

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koffiejunkie said:
The construction is not the same, but as bwana will surely attest, even the low end xxxD's construction is good enough to take a fair beating. The AF on the 60D is also a cut above the xxxD, even if it has the same number of AF points. The difference is that, on the xxD series, they're all cross type, where on the xxxD series only the center one is. I can tell you from experience, the AF on the xxD bodies is quick and accurate, and very capable in low light (better than the 7D is doing so far for me).
Click to expand...
Maybe it's time to tweak the CFs? The 7D might not be my favourite camera but it's pretty good in that regard.
 
Dolby

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From what I've seen, the photos will look identical or pretty close to each other.

The difference in price would be - as you mention - the features, speed of the camera, the construction, the AF etc.

koffie - is there maybe something up with your 7D? I think I remember you saying it wasn't sharp either?
 
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Thanks for all the replies, I read all of them and also read the entire links posted - awesome TL video siriS. For the past few weeks I have been scouring the internet for information and searched all the youtube video's I could find, on these two camera's.

From what I have read, the future iteration/successor to the 7D might have an articulating screen like the 60D. If the 7D had an articulating screen, it would have been a clear winner for me. It is amazing how convenient it is to shoot "from the belly" or from "snails view" or from a meter above head height. Shooting from the belly, with the strap around the neck, and screen facing upwards, allows for discreet shooting - the general public seem to hate being in the background of a picture. So holding a camera to your eye, and pointing in their general direction usually gets a dirty look. :D

But there again - there is no denying the advantages of having dual processors in the 7D compared to the 60D.

Thanks again for the comments
 
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Dolby

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I love the articulating screen :/

I have a Canon SX1 (similar to your SX30) and wasn't sure which to go for either. In the end, the 7D won it due to the speed.

Pretty sure you've done this comparison of the two :

Significantly less shutter lag 131 ms vs 253 ms Around 50% less delay when taking photos


Shoots significantly faster 8 fps vs 5.3 fps More than 50% faster continuous shooting


Significantly more cross-type focus points 19 vs 9 Grab focus in difficult situations


Significantly better viewfinder coverage 100% vs 96% Almost the same


More focus points 19 vs 9 Set focus accurately within the frame


Larger viewfinder 0,62x vs 0,59x More than 10% larger viewfinder


Slightly more dynamic range 11,7 EV vs 11,5 EV 0,2 f-stops more dynamic range


Thinner 2,9" vs 3,1" Around 10% thinner
 
bwana

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I wouldn't want an articulated screen on my main camera - it's just another point of failure waiting to happen - but if I was buying a dSLR primarily for video then definitely. Once you start shooting from the LCD you'll find it's also much slower than using the optical viewfinder.
 
RanzB

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Dolby said:
koffie - is there maybe something up with your 7D? I think I remember you saying it wasn't sharp either?
Click to expand...

Since I'm in the market for the 7D, I've been reading a lot of customer reviews, and I've seen a lot of similar complaints about the poor low-light noise.
 
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bwana said:
Maybe it's time to tweak the CFs? The 7D might not be my favourite camera but it's pretty good in that regard.
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I'm really slow today. What is CFs? :eek:

SiriS said:
This Photography subforum is bad for the wallet... :p
Click to expand...

Then be thankful you don't have all the various online shopping with next day delivery options available :p

Dolby said:
koffie - is there maybe something up with your 7D? I think I remember you saying it wasn't sharp either?
Click to expand...

Yes, something is up. I have determined since last time I wrote about this that sharpness isn't a problem if there is lots of depth of field. It's definitely focus.

Randhir said:
Since I'm in the market for the 7D, I've been reading a lot of customer reviews, and I've seen a lot of similar complaints about the poor low-light noise.
Click to expand...

I don't have a problem with low light noise. In fact, it's very good in that regard. The issue I'm seeing is that in very low light, it simply won't focus. It doesn't even try. Both the 40D and 50D focussed accurately and consistently in much lower light, hence my assessment that something is wrong.
 
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koffiejunkie

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bwana said:
Custom functions - in particular CFIII. :)
Click to expand...

Right. I don't have my cam with me, but I assume you're referring to microfocus adjustments? I'm having a bit if difficulty getting consistent results with the focus charts, while, bizarrely, it's pretty consistent in normal use :confused:
 
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