Damn, I shouldn't have watched this Canon 60 D video

[koffiejunkie]

koffie, perhaps this 7D tip will help you ? it has helped the author

http://blog.photoframd.com/2009/12/07/canon-7d-problem-focusing-customize-the-af/

That's the first thing I did when I got the camera. The various focus modes is one of the major reasons I got the 7D...

 

[bwana]

Right. I don't have my cam with me, but I assume you're referring to microfocus adjustments? I'm having a bit if difficulty getting consistent results with the focus charts, while, bizarrely, it's pretty consistent in normal use

Then stop photographing charts.

But no, not necessarily microfocus. There are other fns that affect the way AF handles different situations.

 

[koffiejunkie]

Then stop photographing charts.

He he. Well, I need to get consistent results in some sort of static setting...

But no, not necessarily microfocus. There are other fns that affect the way AF handles different situations.

Unless I really misunderstood the manual, I don't recall any functions that would cause it to front focus consistently in single-shot mode

 

[bwana]

He he. Well, I need to get consistent results in some sort of static setting...



Unless I really misunderstood the manual, I don't recall any functions that would cause it to front focus consistently in single-shot mode

The CFn's pertain mainly to how the AF tracks in real world situations, not shooting test charts.

wrt your test charts I presume you're shooting something similar to my ruler method (or this http://www.focustestchart.com/focus10.pdf), using Live view and zooming in as much as possible with spot focus?

 

[koffiejunkie]

The CFn's pertain mainly to how the AF tracks in real world situations, not shooting test charts.

wrt your test charts I presume you're shooting something similar to my ruler method (or this http://www.focustestchart.com/focus10.pdf), using Live view and zooming in as much as possible with spot focus?

This is the one I am using: http://www.focustestchart.com/focus21.pdf - chart is on page 17 or 18.

 

[koffiejunkie]

The CFn's pertain mainly to how the AF tracks in real world situations, not shooting test charts.

I'm not even dealing with tracking, just single shot mode.

wrt your test charts I presume you're shooting something similar to my ruler method (or this http://www.focustestchart.com/focus10.pdf), using Live view and zooming in as much as possible with spot focus?

Ooh, I like the focus box idea - I'll have a play with this. Thanks!

 

[Dolby]

Since I'm in the market for the 7D, I've been reading a lot of customer reviews, and I've seen a lot of similar complaints about the poor low-light noise.

I also read a ton and most reviews say the noise should be higher due to the pixel count, however it's surprisingly good. I won't lie and say the best in it's class, but only marginally worse than a Nikon D300s.

 

[Logo]

This is probably not what you want to hear, but you can give a fairly low-spec camera to a good photographer and they can run circles around a pro camera. Then you can give a top end pro camera to a bad photographer and he will take horrible photos

I would suggest you read this review especially their conclusions. http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/canoneos60d/page20.asp

There isn't really that much between the two cameras, the major points are the processor, AF system and viewfinder is better in the 7D. That and the fact that the body isn't the same metal construction in the 60D that would really make me go for the 7D if I had to choose between them.

 

[koffiejunkie]

This is probably not what you want to hear, but you can give a fairly low-spec camera to a good photographer and they can run circles around a pro camera. Then you can give a top end pro camera to a bad photographer and he will take horrible photos

It's not a useful or even relevant contribution to the conversation either. By this reasoning only professional racing drivers should be driving fast cars. Each model offers features that may legitimately appeal to users of all skill levels. An amateur who shoot mostly portraits in pouring rain and have poor eyesight may be drawn to the large viewfinder, integrated grip and complete weather sealing of the 1Ds mk3. If he/she can afford it, then that's the appropriate camera for them.

 

[sybawoods]

I was in the same boat about a month ago (60D vs 7D). I opted for the 60D, and have absolutely no regrets. The "tilty-swivelly" screen was the clincher for me. I'm a big guy, so dropping down to my belly is not an easy option. The first pic below is an example of a shot that would otherwise have been hard for me to get. In this case I just flipped open the LCD screen, swung down my camera, and grabbed the shot.

I've also posted a few of my early pics of the 60D in action under different conditions. All pics shot in RAW, and developed in Lightroom. Nothing spectacular, but hopefully it confirms that this is a great all-round camera. Better person in the cockpit will get some great shots

The 7D is definitely the better camera. My little voice in my head, however (prolly my bank manager!), kept saying "but is it really R5k better... "

 

[Dolby]

This is probably not what you want to hear, but you can give a fairly low-spec camera to a good photographer and they can run circles around a pro camera. Then you can give a top end pro camera to a bad photographer and he will take horrible photos

I used to believe that 90% of down to the photographer and very little on the equipment. But I believe now that a fair amount has to do with the equipment as well ...

 

[bwana]

I used to believe that 90% of down to the photographer and very little on the equipment. But I believe now that a fair amount has to do with the equipment as well ...

A lot depends on the particular genre of photography.

 

[surfs-up]

The "tilty-swivelly" screen was the clincher for me.

We have obviously been watching the same youtube videos, where the oriental guy with the british accent refers to the screen as the "tilty-swivelly screen" I enjoy his video's - he gives a very blunt and honest opinion on camera's

Like I said earlier - the money is not a problem because i will be buying in the USA, where it is a bunch cheaper, and also....there is only a difference of $ 400 between the two models (both providing the same lens)

So far, I think i have summed it up as follows (correct me if i am wrong...)

1. Quality of still images (most important criteria) - should be same as they are using the same sensor
2. Ease of use - also very important, in order to take a quality pic before the picture moment is lost....I think the 60D seems easier to me. It looks like the 7D would be quite a learning curve
3. Video - 60D wins here
4. Build quality - 7D wins here
5. Speed - 7D wins this with two processors, giving 8 fps, and bigger buffer ? that it can take more continuous pics...or is this due to the storage device in 7D being faster than the SD in 60D?
6. Low light ability - I think about the same, before noise starts showing up
7. Battery life - from what I have read the 60D is better - obviously this is if you are using the viewfinder to take the pics on both camera's. If you use the tilty-swivly thing for your shots on the 60D, then this would change the results
8. Convenience - 60D is better here, with the ability to take pics at any angle....and also can flip the screen so that self-portraits and other portraits where the photographer is included in the picture, can be taken with ease
9. Price - 60D is better
10. Focus points - 7D has more

I'm not usually a fence-sitter, but these two camera's have really left me with no clear decision.....although, if I am still undecided when standing in Fry's Electronics showroom in Indianapolis, with dollars in my hand, I will probably end up getting the 7D due to build quality and the dual processors

 

[bwana]

2. Ease of use - also very important, in order to take a quality pic before the picture moment is lost....I think the 60D seems easier to me. It looks like the 7D would be quite a learning curve

I'm not getting this one at all.


You should probable know that you can still see your lcd on the 7D clearly even if you're holding it above your head

 

[sybawoods]

We have obviously been watching the same youtube videos, where the oriental guy with the british accent refers to the screen as the "tilty-swivelly screen" I enjoy his video's - he gives a very blunt and honest opinion on camera's

Like I said earlier - the money is not a problem because i will be buying in the USA, where it is a bunch cheaper, and also....there is only a difference of $ 400 between the two models (both providing the same lens)

So far, I think i have summed it up as follows (correct me if i am wrong...)

1. Quality of still images (most important criteria) - should be same as they are using the same sensor
2. Ease of use - also very important, in order to take a quality pic before the picture moment is lost....I think the 60D seems easier to me. It looks like the 7D would be quite a learning curve
3. Video - 60D wins here
4. Build quality - 7D wins here
5. Speed - 7D wins this with two processors, giving 8 fps, and bigger buffer ? that it can take more continuous pics...or is this due to the storage device in 7D being faster than the SD in 60D?
6. Low light ability - I think about the same, before noise starts showing up
7. Battery life - from what I have read the 60D is better - obviously this is if you are using the viewfinder to take the pics on both camera's. If you use the tilty-swivly thing for your shots on the 60D, then this would change the results
8. Convenience - 60D is better here, with the ability to take pics at any angle....and also can flip the screen so that self-portraits and other portraits where the photographer is included in the picture, can be taken with ease
9. Price - 60D is better
10. Focus points - 7D has more

I'm not usually a fence-sitter, but these two camera's have really left me with no clear decision.....although, if I am still undecided when standing in Fry's Electronics showroom in Indianapolis, with dollars in my hand, I will probably end up getting the 7D due to build quality and the dual processors

Yep, saw that video . Was part of my research - those guys are the "Top Gear" of the photography world. I think you've nailed the pros and cons. I read an article somewhere about the 60D having less noise at high ISO levels. The pixel peepers get quite emotional about this (e.g. yeah, better noise reduction, but looses detail too!), so won't venture into that debate. Bottom line, you can't g wrong with either camera. And if you decide to go the more cost effective route and purchase the 60D, you're not loosing out on much, if anything, depending of course on the nature of the pics you're taking. Tilty-swivelly lcd screen, better HD video performance, equivalent image quality, and easier on the pocket was what swung it towards the 60D for me. And now that I think about it, even if the $$$'s was no problem, I'd probably still want the tilty screen and better video performance in my bag of tricks.

 

[Logo]

It's not a useful or even relevant contribution to the conversation either. By this reasoning only professional racing drivers should be driving fast cars. Each model offers features that may legitimately appeal to users of all skill levels. An amateur who shoot mostly portraits in pouring rain and have poor eyesight may be drawn to the large viewfinder, integrated grip and complete weather sealing of the 1Ds mk3. If he/she can afford it, then that's the appropriate camera for them.

In his original question he asks if the 7D will really make such a big difference in the image quality over the 60D so yes I think it does actually answer his question in a way. What I am saying with that as well is the fact that both cameras are very similar there are a couple of small features that is added to the 7D but nothing that can't be overcome by understanding your camera and working with what you have. Unless there is a glaring problem with the 60D which I can't see it can in the right hands and with the right understanding easily outperform the 7D. There is nothing that gives the 7D a clear cut advantage on image quality.

 

[bwana]

In his original question he asks if the 7D will really make such a big difference in the image quality over the 60D so yes I think it does actually answer his question in a way. What I am saying with that as well is the fact that both cameras are very similar there are a couple of small features that is added to the 7D but nothing that can't be overcome by understanding your camera and working with what you have. Unless there is a glaring problem with the 60D which I can't see it can in the right hands and with the right understanding easily outperform the 7D. There is nothing that gives the 7D a clear cut advantage on image quality.

How is the 60d going to outperform the 7d in the hands of the same photographer?

As impressed as I am with the 60d spec sheet I know that in my world the 19 AF points and the 8fps are going to make a world of difference.

That said I can't wait to upgrade my 7d - if all goes well as soon as next week.

 

[Quantum Theory]

How is the 60d going to outperform the 7d in the hands of the same photographer?

As impressed as I am with the 60d spec sheet I know that in my world the 19 AF points and the 8fps are going to make a world of difference.

That said I can't wait to upgrade my 7d - if all goes well as soon as next week.

He probably means a 60D in the right hands, will outperform a 7D in the wrong hands

 

[koffiejunkie]

In his original question he asks if the 7D will really make such a big difference in the image quality over the 60D so yes I think it does actually answer

Sure you did answer his question towards the end of your post, but that's not the part I quoted.

 

[surfs-up]

How is the 60d going to outperform the 7d in the hands of the same photographer?

As impressed as I am with the 60d spec sheet I know that in my world the 19 AF points and the 8fps are going to make a world of difference.

That said I can't wait to upgrade my 7d - if all goes well as soon as next week.

Bwana....the question begs - if you are upgrading from your 7D

1. What are you upgrading to ?
2. What makes you want to upgrade to your next camera ? Why I am asking....would I not be in the same boat - buy a 7D and want to do a further upgrade soon after ? Is there something lacking in the 7D, or what feature in your next camera is alluring enough to ditch the 7D ?

Why this worries me, is that I bought a 500D after they were released.....and was very soon kicking myself for not just buying up and getting the 7D right off the bat. Now I have a 500D sitting in the cupboard, I paid 12 grand for it, and would probably battle to get more than 4 grand for it if I try and sell it.

Damn, camera's are like computers - no sooner have you bought a wonderful camera, then a bigger, better new model comes out with grand features, and yours becomes superceeded.