Dawie Roodt argues striking Eskom workers already paid far too much

[mypetcow]

I get your point, but the counterargument is that you can’t have both of these things:

1.) High pay
2.) An inflated workforce

And the unions want both of those things together. So if workers are part of these unions, they should live with lower wages in exchange for the security of knowing the union won’t allow retrenchments.

That’s not how unions work. Their whole point is to represent their members or an entire sector and to ensure the employees get the best working conditions possible.
In this case both a high salary and a job security taking inflation and other eleconimic developments into consideration.
Should they take advantage of the current situation while Eskom is bleeding? That’s debatable but they are at the longer end of the stick this time.

 

[mypetcow]

treason

No. A strike whether illegal or not is not treason.

 

[Mike Hoxbig]

R14,000-19,000 for general workers working on national infrastructure. Don’t make me laugh at how embarrassingly low this is. Don’t know what this economist think they should be paid but clearly he’s more on the side of minimum wage.

Let the market dictate what they should be paid by introducing competition, as it is with the rest of us.

It's easy to say they should be paid x because of y. But how easily available is their skill and what value do they provide? The fact that they work for a monopoly that provides an essential service, provides a false sense of availability and value of their skill...

 

[Mike Hoxbig]

No. A strike whether illegal or not is not treason.

Sabotaging national key points is...

 

[3WA]

That’s not how unions work.

I think that’s a little naive. Unions have been very vocal about not wanting retrenchments, and, given that Eskom pays too much in salaries compared to revenue or comparable entities in other countries, that means, there is simply no money to run Eskom and keep the high salary bill.

A statement from a few years ago that makes the union position quite clear:

NUMSA CONDEMNS ESKOMS PLANS TO RETRENCH WORKERS - NUMSA

The National Union of Metalworkers of South Africa (NUMSA) condemns in the strongest terms Eskom’s decision to retrench workers. Our members at Megawatt park staged a lunchtime picket together with members of the NUM on Wednesday. the purpose of the demonstration was to express our anger at...

numsa.org.za

this case both a high salary and a job security taking inflation and other eleconimic developments into consideration

In Eskom's case, due to the fact that the workforce is inflated, it is simply not possible to offer that without taxpayer bailouts.

 

[Mike Hoxbig]

That’s not how unions work. Their whole point is to represent their members or an entire sector and to ensure the employees get the best working conditions possible.

Yes that's how it's supposed to work, but doesn't.

Union membership is declining in SA, as it's done everywhere else. The reason they're starting to get more radical is they need to be seen doing something, to increase their membership.

In reality, the only people who benefit from unions are those at the top. It's big business. If it was truly about the workers, there wouldn't be assassinations for stealing members from competing unions.

People are waking up to the fact that the unions dgaf about them, hence the decline in membership...

 

[j4ck455]

According to EWN, the unions were also focused on three other benefits that would be key to “moving forward”, namely:

1. Bringing back double payment for overtime on weekends and while on standby.

That's the real demand and it's the one demand that eSkommel must not give in to because it gives saboteurs the incentive to sabotage whatever they can to drum up some weekend overtime pay.

If the double overtime option remains off the table, there will be less incentive to sabotage anything in sight.

After eSkommel has a signed agreement with unions, employees involved in acts of intimidation and petrol bombing etc, need to have criminal charges laid against them and SAPS needs to actually arrest them, disciplinary processes should kick off in parallel, including no work no pay (that shouldn't even be debatable).

 

[SubtleBeast]

R14,000-19,000 for general workers working on national infrastructure. Don’t make me laugh at how embarrassingly low this is. Don’t know what this economist think they should be paid but clearly he’s more on the side of minimum wage.

Just goes to show you how out of touch he is. Just because everyone in SA is being short changed in their employment situation doesn’t justify paying people working at national infrastructure sites a pittance. I understand why the strike happened legal or not.

R20,000-25,000 would be more realistic for a general worker position to ensure the employees are more happy to be at work and to do a good job.

Think of it this way. How well would you do your job if you get a kick in the teeth every day you go to work and every payday?

He mentioned general workers being overpaid and engineers/technicians being underpaid.
He failed to mention management. It's here where the pay squeeze needs to happen. Exorbitant remuneration and benefits packages, while mostly no tangible benefit to company outcomes. Unfortunately most SOE's management structures bloated.

 

[rh1]

R14,000-19,000 for general workers working on national infrastructure. Don’t make me laugh at how embarrassingly low this is. Don’t know what this economist think they should be paid but clearly he’s more on the side of minimum wage.

Just goes to show you how out of touch he is. Just because everyone in SA is being short changed in their employment situation doesn’t justify paying people working at national infrastructure sites a pittance. I understand why the strike happened legal or not.

R20,000-25,000 would be more realistic for a general worker position to ensure the employees are more happy to be at work and to do a good job.

Think of it this way. How well would you do your job if you get a kick in the teeth every day you go to work and every payday?

How skilled are these general workers? At work we are increasing select staff members salary as a preemptive move. Why, as I told my boss, in my lengthy career, they are simply the best subordinates I had a pleasure to work with.

Valuable skills = more money.
More production = more money.

Increase without 1 or the 2 above, just means above inflationatory increases.

These general workers don't deserve 1cent. They are militant terrorist who sabotage state infrastructure causing untold damages to the economy. They cannot be trusted, and as it is an unprotected strike, they should be fired, if they become violent, they should be arrested.

 

[neoprema]

Is it just me or is the media photos of the rioters and, let's use the correct term, state terrorists, all wearing EFF shirts?

 

[VooDooC]

R14,000-19,000 for general workers working on national infrastructure. Don’t make me laugh at how embarrassingly low this is. Don’t know what this economist think they should be paid but clearly he’s more on the side of minimum wage.

Just goes to show you how out of touch he is. Just because everyone in SA is being short changed in their employment situation doesn’t justify paying people working at national infrastructure sites a pittance. I understand why the strike happened legal or not.

R20,000-25,000 would be more realistic for a general worker position to ensure the employees are more happy to be at work and to do a good job.

Think of it this way. How well would you do your job if you get a kick in the teeth every day you go to work and every payday?

Agree, that does sound like a better wage point for a "working" power company, especially one that has the monopoly on power for a whole country. But in saying that, these workers striking for better compensation are part and parcel to the stuff up that is Eskom, they and the maf... unions they belong to.

You can't do a piss poor job and then expect to get increases and bonusses, the same goes for the execs at Eskom as well.

 

[CB40]

Sabotaging national key points is...

And is treason

 

[mypetcow]

I think that’s a little naive. Unions have been very vocal about not wanting retrenchments, and, given that Eskom pays too much in salaries compared to revenue or comparable entities in other countries, that means, there is simply no money to run Eskom and keep the high salary bill.

A statement from a few years ago that makes the union position quite clear:

NUMSA CONDEMNS ESKOMS PLANS TO RETRENCH WORKERS - NUMSA

The National Union of Metalworkers of South Africa (NUMSA) condemns in the strongest terms Eskom’s decision to retrench workers. Our members at Megawatt park staged a lunchtime picket together with members of the NUM on Wednesday. the purpose of the demonstration was to express our anger at...

numsa.org.za

In Eskom's case, due to the fact that the workforce is inflated, it is simply not possible to offer that without taxpayer bailouts.

…but Eskom is by definition since its inception a service to the country. I.e. it is by definition taxpayer funded and has always been run at a loss from the 1920s. The prices we pay in no way reflect the real cost of running the power stations and…most importantly here…maintaining the nationwide electricity infrastructure of high voltage lines, substations, various interconnects to all distribution points etc.
It’s easy to say a private sector solar or wind power station produces cheaper electricity which is true but it’s not all about the generation. No use having generation if you can’t get the power anywhere.

Inflated workforce…I think not.

 

[RVQ]

Let the market dictate what they should be paid by introducing competition, as it is with the rest of us.

It's easy to say they should be paid x because of y. But how easily available is their skill and what value do they provide? The fact that they work for a monopoly that provides an essential service, provides a false sense of availability and value of their skill...

The reality is its not the scarce skilled engineers participating in the violent/ illegal strikes, these are general workers with basic skills... right now there's thousands of unemployed people willing to work for minimum wage doing double the work....

 

[wingnut771]

…but Eskom is by definition since its inception a service to the country. I.e. it is by definition taxpayer funded and has always been run at a loss from the 1920s. The prices we pay in no way reflect the real cost of running the power stations and…most importantly here…maintaining the nationwide electricity infrastructure of high voltage lines, substations, various interconnects to all distribution points etc.
It’s easy to say a private sector solar or wind power station produces cheaper electricity which is true but it’s not all about the generation. No use having generation if you can’t get the power anywhere.

Inflated workforce…I think not.

Amazing how they managed it for 80 years but the anc can't even make 30 years without **** hitting the fan.

 

[Zyzzyva]

Inflated workforce…I think not.

Then how do you explain this:

"Eskom’s power capacity was 0.72 megavolt amps per employee, according to data in its latest annual report. That compared with 30.98 MVA for every staff member at Power Grid Corp. of India Ltd., that country’s largest transmission utility."

Eskom’s massive workforce problem: over-staffed and over-paid

After a decade of unprecedented growth in staff numbers, cash-strapped South African power utility Eskom Holdings SOC Ltd. is finally tackling the controversial issue of its headcount.

businesstech.co.za

 

[Sledgehammer67]

ONLY three letters apply here or a bit more: AN-Fcucken-C ie AN-F-C... we are here because of their absolute lack of logical thinking - these people are clueless with all due respect.

 

[3WA]

…but Eskom is by definition since its inception a service to the country. I.e. it is by definition taxpayer funded and has always been run at a loss from the 1920s.

Things are slightly different now: an economic policy from the last century doesn't help us meet our goals in the modern world. We're not competing against ourselves from the past: we're competing against other countries with modern economies.

The prices we pay in no way reflect the real cost of running the power stations

Thanks to Eskom, many of us with solar installations are paying the very real cost of producing our energy. Even some of us without solar would quite happily pay more than what we are paying now if we could get a more reliable supply of electricity.

No use having generation if you can’t get the power anywhere

Many industries are ready to install their own generation exactly where they need it and they are only held back by government regulations on how many MW they can generate.

inflated workforce…I think not.

Why not? There is plenty of information on this

A World Bank study in 2016 found that South African utilities pay workers more than double the norm in 35 other countries on the continent, with staff costs coming in at an average $61,000 per employee per year. Eskom is potentially overstaffed by 66 percent, the report said.

Eskom’s massive workforce problem: over-staffed and over-paid

After a decade of unprecedented growth in staff numbers, cash-strapped South African power utility Eskom Holdings SOC Ltd. is finally tackling the controversial issue of its headcount.

businesstech.co.za

If you follow this issue, you'll know that since the World Bank study, Eskom has had voluntary retrenchment programmes to try and lower its workforce: the programme still exists, indicating that they are still overstaffed and trying to reduce headcount.

 

[TEXTILE GUY]

How skilled are these general workers? At work we are increasing select staff members salary as a preemptive move. Why, as I told my boss, in my lengthy career, they are simply the best subordinates I had a pleasure to work with.

Valuable skills = more money.
More production = more money.

Increase without 1 or the 2 above, just means above inflationatory increases.

These general workers don't deserve 1cent. They are militant terrorist who sabotage state infrastructure causing untold damages to the economy. They cannot be trusted, and as it is an unprotected strike, they should be fired, if they become violent, they should be arrested.

Quite right.

The ROI for the head you employ.

What do you get for that dollar.
A degree in a lazy man's hands is worthless.

As for disgruntled workers ..... if you don't like it leave..

 

[dualmeister]

And more and more people are going to stream out of the Country.
Bye, bye tax payers.