Death by AIDS prohibited

kaspaas

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Watershed Aids case for SA
23/11/2006 11:14 - (SA)

http://www.news24.com/News24/South_Africa/Aids_Focus/0,9294,2-7-659_2034597,00.html

Pretoria - A former state pathologist will face a disciplinary hearing for writing Aids as the cause of death on a woman's death certificate, labour union Solidarity said on Wednesday.

"The hearing can be a watershed for South Africa in view of the fact Aids cannot at present be entered on a death certificate as the cause of death", the union's Dirk Hermann said.

Leon Wagner is a former chief pathologist of the Free State who is currently in private practice. His disciplinary hearing will take place in Bloemfontein on Thursday.

"If he is exonerated and it is found that doctors may in future indicate Aids as the real cause of death on certificates, it would have tremendous consequences for the statistical documentation of this pandemic," Hermann said.

Currently doctors cannot indicate Aids as the cause of death.

Hermann said the hearing could have a huge impact on the insurance industry as most insurance companies did not pay out if a client died of Aids.

If Aids could be entered as the cause of death, South Africa would for the first time be able to measure the extent of mortality related to the disease.

"We would very much like to see this happening," Hermann said.

At the preliminary hearings Wagner said he had been told that the case against him was not a legal one, but a "moral issue about which the government is sensitive".

"I cannot allow the SAHPC (SA Health Professions Council) to compel me to lie on death certificates simply so that government can pretend that the Aids pandemic is an epidemic," Wagner said.

He believed his hearing could be a turning point for South Africa and that death certificates offered the most accurate data to compile Aids statistics.
 

icyrus

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Currently doctors cannot indicate Aids as the cause of death.

Why is this the case? This has to be the most self-serving, inhumane thing I have heard for a long time.
 

Syndyre

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Why is this the case? This has to be the most self-serving, inhumane thing I have heard for a long time.

Because *technically* AIDS doesn't kill you, it just weakens you to the point where TB or pneumonia etc does.
 

icyrus

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Because *technically* AIDS doesn't kill you, it just weakens you to the point where TB or pneumonia etc does.

So if someone gets shot and dies, the cause of death is excessive bleeding?
 

GavinMannion

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Yeah I was thinking about this this morning as well, since AIDS doesn't kill you it is correct that it can't be put down as the cause of death.

However maybe they should just add another field on the forum 'mitigating circumstances'

Which would then be AIDS, or in other types of cases

Cause of Death = 'gunshot to his head'
Mitigating Circumstances = 'drunk'

It would give us more accurate stats.

I think the dr should have known better, he did it politically in my opinion which is sad.
 

werner

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are you allowed to die of cancer then? because cancer just mucks up your organs until your body cant go on anymore.

so, by that definition, you cant die of cancer.

new promo leaflet: welcome to s.a., where aids and cancer are no longer killer diseases.
 

icyrus

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I think the dr should have known better, he did it politically in my opinion which is sad.

What really is sad is the government's stance on this - saving face at the cost of thousands of lives. Actually its not sad, its just sick.
 

vespax

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I think they should place AIDS somewhere on the certificate.

Although, people will get upset if it becomes public info that so and so died with AIDS on their papers. Can you imagine the gov't officials having to explain their family deaths while not properly funding/supporting people living with it?
 

AntiThesis

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See I would say that without AIDS, the TB wouldn't have killed someone. So I'd prefer the doctors to be able to say: AIDS (TB) on the forms. I'm just very tired of all the "TB" deaths that are essentially misreported because doctors aren't allowed to say the real cause.
 

Syndyre

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So if someone gets shot and dies, the cause of death is excessive bleeding?

Doubt it, but its not viewed as the same situation legally I suppose. Not saying I agree with the policy, but that's how it stands at present.
 

BTTB

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Because *technically* AIDS doesn't kill you, it just weakens you to the point where TB or pneumonia etc does.

Agreed. :)

Now how could that be put on the Death Notice without the dead person losing any of their Constitutional Rights?
Not sure if that came across the right way?
Dead people I suspect wont need any Rights. :rolleyes:

Werner and GavinMannion seem to have some solutions. :)
 

BTTB

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are you allowed to die of cancer then? because cancer just mucks up your organs until your body cant go on anymore.

so, by that definition, you cant die of cancer.

new promo leaflet: welcome to s.a., where aids and cancer are no longer killer diseases.
Good Point.

To add. AFAIK there are more people dying of Cancer than AIDS? At least that used to be the case.

Wonder what the TAC think about all of this?
 

Syndyre

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Agreed. :)

Now how could that be put on the Death Notice without the dead person losing any of their Constitutional Rights?
Not sure if that came across the right way?
Dead people I suspect wont need any Rights. :rolleyes:

Werner and GavinMannion seem to have some solutions. :)

There definitely should be some sort of field for "contributing conditions" or similar.

Btw, have the government even publically admitted that HIV causes AIDS yet?
 

Syndyre

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Hermann said the hearing could have a huge impact on the insurance industry as most insurance companies did not pay out if a client died of Aids.

Maybe this is the real motivation for maintaining the status quo?
 

thed33p

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by the govt's definition, all death certificates should state: "Lack of oxygen to the brain"
 

simple_simon

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actually aids is the cause of death....aids weakens the immune system to such an extent your body can't defend itself....wether its TB or cancer or pneumonia that actually does the killing....it is still aids that caused it.
 

GavinMannion

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actually aids is the cause of death....aids weakens the immune system to such an extent your body can't defend itself....wether its TB or cancer or pneumonia that actually does the killing....it is still aids that caused it.

Hmm not sure why so many people are arguing the wrong thing here.

AIDS cannot kill you, AIDS prepares your body to die but doesn't kill you.
So medically it would be correct to say TB, Flu, Common cold but not AIDS.

It's dumb and it causes problems but it is still a fact. I stand by my initial suggestion of adding a 'mitigating circumstances' field to the form.....

Before anyone jumps in and complains again, if you have AIDS and get put in a clean room you won't die of AIDS. That is why AIDS is not the cause of death.
 
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