Democrats Have Impeached Trump in the House.

[rietrot]

Yeah, no. You're just using your own definitions of racism. If anything, ending AA is a racist act, since AA is explicitly a redress for centuries of slavery and racial apartheid.

How is assuming that black people are too stupid to compete on a level playing field (what AA does) not racist?

 

[Spizz]

^Alternative racism.





Please explain how democracy was trampled upon.

Really, that's what you took from all that? Lol, well done. I guess I presented you with a nice little strawman there.

But sure, let's go with voting to keep your Pres in a job whether he is guilty or not, because you are scared of losing your own one.

No other thoughts on the rest of it, or will you simply ignore it and carry on regardless as seems to be the case with the rest of the apologists here?

 

[konfab]

Nobody deserves to be discriminated against.

That is where you should have ended your reply. The "but" part contradicts everything you said here.

But I'm sorry, it doesn't matter if you or I weren't involved in slavery or apartheid, it was done by our country to black people,

It does matter. Blaming one person for the actions of another is antithical to justice. Once you allow that, you can allow anything. Gulags? No problem. Concentration camps? Why not? I mean it "doesn't matter if you weren't involved in it".

e,nd the country needs to redress that somehow. And no matter how you do it, it's going to look like discrimination because it only benefits the group that were previously oppressed.

That is nonsense, literally straight out of the ANC and EFF playblook. You really make a good little progressive don't you.

Can I tell what isn't racism? Lets say helping those who need it, and not bothering to look at whether they are from a certain oppressed group. Here is the bonus part, if a group of people have been oppressed, this helps them anyway.
There is plenty you can do, like merit scholarships, school vouchers etc that really help people. Also not treating said oppressed groups like they are an ice-cream in the Sahara desert is part of that redress process.

Tough titty. It's not racism.

You see, all you need to do is show that the Jews did a serious harm to your people, and thus you can systematically exclude them from society. Unfair? Tough titty. It's not racism.

 

[C4Cat]

Another one who seems to have lost complete sense of what nationalism actually means... I blame leftist propaganda

I was thinking the same about you when you made the stupid statement that irrespective of personal opinion, it's not a bad thing.

 

[Eniigma]

it isn't, never has been, the lefties have been pretending it is a synonym for "white supremacist" for decades now though, f'em

As will be proven in 3...2....1

Hendrik Verwoerd says ‘hell, yeah’ for this post.

 

[konfab]

Really, that's what you took from all that? Lol, well done. I guess I presented you with a nice little strawman there.

But sure, let's go with voting to keep your Pres in a job whether he is guilty or not, because you are scared of losing your own one.

No other thoughts on the rest of it, or will you simply ignore it and carry on regardless as seems to be the case with the rest of the apologists here?

Exactly how had democracy been trampled on with this impeachment?

Trump has been playing by the same rules as every other president. Part of the Democratic process is to accept that you have lost by the rules you choose to play. Which is funny since the past 4 years in the Anglo world have mostly consisted of a bunch of salty leftists wanting to overturn a democratic decision.

 

[Gnarls]

Really, that's what you took from all that? Lol, well done. I guess I presented you with a nice little strawman there.

But sure, let's go with voting to keep your Pres in a job whether he is guilty or not, because you are scared of losing your own one.

No other thoughts on the rest of it, or will you simply ignore it and carry on regardless as seems to be the case with the rest of the apologists here?

More bloviating from the guy who doesn't know much about US politics and doesn't care about either. You made the assertion, you prove it. or as I said earlier STFU.

 

[cerebus]

That is where you should have ended your reply. The "but" part contradicts everything you said here.

It doesn't at all. The nation of the USA (and SA), in the not-at-all-distant past, enslaved and systematically oppressed black people. That is a serious stain on their national conscience. For them to turn around and merely undo the laws, and then claim no further responsibility towards blacks who have been left disempowered, undereducated, impoverished and still widely discriminated against, would be a grave injustice.

But how can you possibly make reparations for the wrongs done to blacks historically? Your argument is that anything the US would try to do to make amends in real terms amounts to anti-white racism. It's facially absurd.

 

[Spizz]

Exactly how had democracy been trampled on with this impeachment?

Trump has been playing by the same rules as every other president. Part of the Democratic process is to accept that you have lost by the rules you choose to play. Which is funny since the past 4 years in the Anglo world have mostly consisted of a bunch of salty leftists wanting to overturn a democratic decision.

And yet we all decried the ANC for not having the balls to vote against Zuma? Or are you saying you didn't and it didn't piss you off that he was allowed to continue?

I don't see the difference between this and that. Voting along party lines and having a majority doesn't make you innocent.

 

[Pitbull]

I was thinking the same about you when you made the stupid statement that irrespective of personal opinion, it's not a bad thing.

It's not. You guys want it to be... it's not

 

[Spizz]

More bloviating from the guy who doesn't know much about US politics and doesn't care about either. You made the assertion, you prove it. or as I said earlier STFU.

WTF are you rabbiting about? What assertion have I not backed up?

 

[Gnarls]

WTF are you rabbiting about? What assertion have I not backed up?

And he doubles down.

Exactly how had democracy been trampled on with this impeachment?

Trump has been playing by the same rules as every other president. Part of the Democratic process is to accept that you have lost by the rules you choose to play. Which is funny since the past 4 years in the Anglo world have mostly consisted of a bunch of salty leftists wanting to overturn a democratic decision.

This or should I get crayons for you?

 

[Spizz]

And he doubles down.



This or should I get crayons for you?

No, you can keep them stuffed up your nostril.

Post 2809. Should I get glasses for you?

 

[konfab]

It doesn't at all. The nation of the USA (and SA), in the not-at-all-distant past, enslaved and systematically oppressed black people. That is a serious stain on their national conscience. For them to turn around and merely undo the laws, and then claim no further responsibility towards blacks who have been left disempowered, undereducated, impoverished and still widely discriminated against, would be a grave injustice.

If you are dis-empowered, under-educated and impoverished, you can help that person based on those measures alone. That is helping them without repeating the mistakes in the past.

Part of your racial nationalism is to assume that all blacks are "disempowered, undereducated, impoverished", whilst all white people are "empowered, well educated and not impoverished". This isn't the case. That is why the AA approach is fundamentally wrong.

But how can you possibly make reparations for the wrongs done to blacks historically?

By helping the people who are in poverty. If they are still historically or currently poor, they will be helped out.

Your argument is that anything the US would try to do to make amends in real terms amounts to anti-white racism.

No it isn't.
For one thing, it assumes all black people feel like hapless victims. I am sure that Kanye West cries himself to sleep at night because Donald Trump took away the affirmative action program.
It also assumes that all black people are one group and think identitcally. What if one black person in the US states that they don't want Donald Trump (as the king of all white people) to apologise for a crime he didn't do? Is that person no longer a real black person?

I have simply stated that you shouldn't (and cannot in the case of the state) discriminate against people based on their race.

 

[Gnarls]

No, you can keep them stuffed up your nostril.

Post 2809. Should I get glasses for you?

Already have some junior. Please explain exactly where you explained how this impeachment trampled on democracy. All I see is obfuscation, deflection and pure bs.

And yet we all decried the ANC for not having the balls to vote against Zuma? Or are you saying you didn't and it didn't piss you off that he was allowed to continue?

I don't see the difference between this and that. Voting along party lines and having a majority doesn't make you innocent.

Don't be lazy, show your work.

 

[cerebus]

If you are dis-empowered, under-educated and impoverished, you can help that person based on those measures alone. That is helping them without repeating the mistakes in the past.

Yes that's what AA attempts to do.

Part of your racial nationalism is to assume that all blacks are "disempowered, undereducated, impoverished", whilst all white people are "empowered, well educated and not impoverished". This isn't the case. That is why the AA approach is fundamentally wrong.

I make no such assumptions. But as far as I know, whites were never enslaved or endured Jim Crow laws in the South, or forced to live in ghettoes because of zoning laws. We are talking about making amends for the sins of the past. And I'm sorry if you don't feel personally responsible for other people, it is not the point.

By helping the people who are in poverty. If they are still historically or currently poor, they will be helped out.

Again, that's exactly what AA tries to do. It attempts to give black (or previously disadvantaged) people a leg up in the job market, which as you say, helps them work their own way out poverty instead of relying on government handouts. Isn't that better than welfare?

 

[konfab]

And yet we all decried the ANC for not having the balls to vote against Zuma? Or are you saying you didn't and it didn't piss you off that he was allowed to continue?

I don't see the difference between this and that. Voting along party lines and having a majority doesn't make you innocent.

That isn't democracy being trampled on though. It is Democracy (with a capital D) in action.
What is being trampled on is the rule of law and an South Africa's case individual rights (which my friend Cerberus has just stated can be trampled upon for any reason the state wants)

What you don't want to admit, is that Democracy isn't proving to be a very effective safeguard against the powers of the state.
Which leaves you two options:
Find another way of choosing rulers (maybe a Monarchy with clones of the Queen as eternal rulers)
Recognise that the government will be corrupt regardless of what you do and limit the powers of the state. (Which involves delegating responsibility to the private sector).

 

[Moosedrool]

AA is not racism, as I just pointed out in the post you quoted.

Except that it is. You're creating injustice for many individuals who haven't benefitted from apartheid based solely on their skin colour.

 

[cerebus]

Except that it is. You're creating injustice for many individuals who haven't benefitted from apartheid based solely on their skin colour.

Ok I'm not going to regurgitate my whole debate with konfab but I've addressed your points already

 

[Gnarls]

Yes that's what AA attempts to do.



I make no such assumptions. But as far as I know, whites were never enslaved or endured Jim Crow laws in the South, or forced to live in ghettoes because of zoning laws. We are talking about making amends for the sins of the past. And I'm sorry if you don't feel personally responsible for other people, it is not the point.



Again, that's exactly what AA tries to do. It attempts to give black (or previously disadvantaged) people a leg up in the job market, which as you say, helps them work their own way out poverty instead of relying on government handouts. Isn't that better than welfare?

Have you read any Thomas Sowell?