Democrats Have Impeached Trump in the House.

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cerebus

cerebus

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Sollie said:
Tweeeeet!

Wrong. Time out. Reality check.

People like you, your yo and you who are South Africans can't change US laws, voting systems ... we aren't US citizens. Please keep it real.
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Who are "people like you", if not those who share your views and are US citizens?
 
konfab

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Unhappy438 said:
Absolute nonsense, the current system already has providers accepting rates for coverage based on medical aid rates, thats also how South Africas system works.
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No credits for partial answers. Medical aids are not allowed to take your risk factors into account when calculating your premium. That ***is*** price fixing.

Unhappy438 said:
Another issue is trying to deal with thousands of different insurances, which is a paperwork nightmare for doctors, a single payer system will greatly reduce those costs.
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No it won't. It simply shifts the burden onto the taxpayer. Then you have all that administration cost essentially being kept away from market forces. Then you run out of other people's money and have to increase the funding.

No government is more efficient than a market. Healthcare is no different. If you think that this isn't the case, then by all means, give Donald Trump the levers of power to all healthcare in the US. I find it remarkable that in the same thread where the discussion is how a president has abused the power of the office, you have people wanting to give the president even more power. Truly remarkable.


Unhappy438 said:
There is no real point in trying to argue with you if you want to make up your own definitions like regulation = nationalisation. You're basically trying to make the argument that the entire world is nationalised.
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If you don't control an asset or how you use it, it is nationalised. That is the fact. And you would be on my side if we were talking about the "ownership" of woman's bodies when it comes to the regulation of abortion. Try to have some consistency.


Unhappy438 said:
There is no real point in trying to argue with you if you want to make up your own definitions like regulation = nationalisation. You're basically trying to make the argument that the entire world is nationalised.
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There isn't any point in discussing economics with people who work on the assumption that a healthcare system run by Donald Trump is going to be more efficient than a free market. And yes that is what you are arguing as you don't know who will be president in the future.
 
TysonRoux

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Ukraine aid was withheld illegally, watchdog says
The Government Accountability Office reports Trump administration broke the law in the issue at the center of Trump's impeachment

The Government Accountability Office says the Trump administration broke the law when it withheld US security aid to Ukraine last year that had been appropriated by Congress -- an issue at the center of the impeachment of President Donald Trump.

In a decision issued Thursday, the GAO said that the White House budget office violated the Impoundment Control Act, which says that funds appropriated by Congress cannot be withheld by the White House.

"Faithful execution of the law does not permit the President to substitute his own policy priorities for those that Congress has enacted into law. OMB withheld funds for a policy reason, which is not permitted under the Impoundment Control Act (ICA). The withholding was not a programmatic delay. Therefore, we conclude that OMB violated the ICA," the GAO said.

A hold was placed on the Ukraine aid at the beginning of July 2019, and the agencies were notified at a July 18 meeting that it had been frozen at the direction of the President, a week before a phone call between President Donald Trump and Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky which later became the reason an impeachment inquiry was launched into the President.

This story is breaking and will be updated.

www.cnn.com

READ: GAO concludes OMB violated law in withholding Ukraine aid

The Trump administration broke the law when it withheld US security aid to Ukraine last year that had been appropriated by Congress, an issue at the center of the impeachment of President Donald Trump, the Government Accountability Office says.
www.cnn.com www.cnn.com
 
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greg0205

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konfab said:
No one has discredited the claim that Hillary Clinton ordered Epstein's suicide either.

Why?
Because it is an unproven allegation. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.

More reading:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burden_of_proof_(philosophy)#Proving_a_negative
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Sure, I mean things like:

"Russian regime had been behind the recent leak of embarrassing e-mail messages, emanating from the Democratic National Committee (DNC) to the WikiLeaks platform."

... and:

"TRUMP team had agreed to sideline Russian intervention in Ukraine as a campaign issue and to raise US/NATO defence commitments in the Baltics and Eastern Europe to deflect attention away from Ukraine, a priority for PUTIN who needed to cauterise the subject."

... are impossible to discredit 'cos you're trying to prove a negative, amirite?






Oh, wait... You think the only thing in the Steele Dossier was the pee tape thing, don't you?
 
konfab

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cerebus said:
He isn't going to be removed because people like you insist that it would be more productive to change future laws to prevent the abuses of office that the current president just committed, instead of penalizing him directly for breaking the law.
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Trump isn't going to be removed because his party has the majority in the senate. That is the reality.

Here in sunny SA for example, as much as I would like to see Jacob Zuma behind bars, I would have preferred Parliment to remove the powers that were used by the presidency for corruption so you don't have to worry about the next @sshole who gets the office.
 
greg0205

greg0205

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konfab said:
Trump isn't going to be removed because his party has the majority in the senate. That is the reality.

Here in sunny SA for example, as much as I would like to see Jacob Zuma behind bars, I would have preferred Parliment to remove the powers that were used by the presidency for corruption so you don't have to worry about the next @sshole who gets the office.
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I agree... Mostly.

Lawless presidents will *always* find ways to crime, irrespective of parliaments or congresses because, well, because they're lawless.

The trick is not electing a man with a 40 year history of lawlessness... True in Donnie and Jacob's cases.

... And it's the most difficult trick of all.
 
greg0205

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White House violated the law by freezing Ukraine aid, GAO says

The White House budget office violated the law when it froze U.S. military aid to Ukraine, the Government Accountability Office concluded in a new report.

President Donald Trump ordered the hold on the critical military assistance in July, a slew of senior White House officials testified to House impeachment investigators late last year, a move that coincided with the president and his allies’ effort to pressure Ukraine to investigate his Democratic rivals.

“Faithful execution of the law does not permit the president to substitute his own policy priorities for those that Congress has enacted into law,” the GAO wrote in an eight-page report.

Trump’s decision to withhold millions in military aid, which he reversed in September after House investigators began probing the move, is at the heart of the articles of impeachment the House passed last month, and it will be a central allegation in the Senate’s impeachment trial that begins Thursday.

The report undercuts an oft-stated defense of Trump’s decision to hold the aid back: that it was a lawful exercise of the president’s authority.

GAO, an independent nonpartisan government watchdog that responds to congressional requests, said the White House attempted to justify its decision not to notify Congress by claiming it was simply a “programmatic delay.” But GAO rejected that claim, saying Trump’s decision, carried out by the budget office, was a violation of the Impoundment Control Act, which requires notification to Congress of any such delay in an appropriation of funds.

“OMB’s assertions have no basis in law,” the GAO argues, referring to the White House Office of Management and Budget.

OMB spokeswoman Rachel Semmel pushed back on GAO’s conclusions.

“We disagree with GAO's opinion,” Semmel said. “OMB uses its apportionment authority to ensure taxpayer dollars are properly spent consistent with the president’s priorities and with the law.”

The GAO report also states that OMB and the State Department “failed” to provide all of the information that was necessary for its investigation. That decision will likely fuel Democrats’ arguments in the Senate trial that Trump has attempted to obstruct Congress’ ability to investigate the Ukraine matter and that he’s been engaged in a coverup.
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"Faithful execution of the law does not permit the President to substitute his own policy priorities for those that Congress has enacted into law. In fact, Congress was concerned about exactly these types of withholdings when it enacted and later amended the ICA."
 
konfab

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greg0205 said:
I agree... Mostly.

Lawless presidents will *always* find ways to crime, irrespective of parliaments or congresses because, well, because they're lawless.

The trick is not electing a man with a 40 year history of lawlessness... True in Donnie and Jacob's cases.

... And it's the most difficult trick of all.
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It isn't really. You just have to work with the assumption that democracy won't always elect the right person. Which everyone knows is true.
Except statists have to be deluded into thinking their guy will be good.

You copy the Switzerland model where political power is extremely diffuse. Thus when someone who is corrupt gets into power, they can't do that much damage. It is so diffused that the president barely needs security.

This is what the US government was meant to be like. But successive governments have inflated it more than their waistlines.

Anyway, if 8 years of Donald Trump and Jacob Zuma doesn't convince statists that increasing the size of the government isn't a good thing, then no amount of reason I can provide will change that.
 
B

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Whoops.

Ukraine will do some investigation inti this whole story after all ... just not what Trump wanted.

They are opening an investigation into the allegations that the ambassador was placed under illegal surveillance.

apnews.com

Ukraine opens probe of possible surveillance of ambassador

KYIV, Ukraine (AP) — Police in Ukraine are investigating whether the U.S. ambassador came under illegal surveillance by an unknown party before the Trump administration recalled her from Kyiv, Ukrainian authorities said Thursday...
apnews.com apnews.com
 
greg0205

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buka001 said:
Whoops.

Ukraine will do some investigation inti this whole story after all ... just not what Trump wanted.

They are opening an investigation into the allegations that the ambassador was placed under illegal surveillance.

apnews.com

Ukraine opens probe of possible surveillance of ambassador

KYIV, Ukraine (AP) — Police in Ukraine are investigating whether the U.S. ambassador came under illegal surveillance by an unknown party before the Trump administration recalled her from Kyiv, Ukrainian authorities said Thursday...
apnews.com apnews.com
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Mike Pompeo's State Department and Bill Barr's DOJ will get right on that...


Oh, wait.
 
cerebus

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konfab said:
It isn't really. You just have to work with the assumption that democracy won't always elect the right person. Which everyone knows is true.
Except statists have to be deluded into thinking their guy will be good.

You copy the Switzerland model where political power is extremely diffuse. Thus when someone who is corrupt gets into power, they can't do that much damage. It is so diffused that the president barely needs security.

This is what the US government was meant to be like. But successive governments have inflated it more than their waistlines.

Anyway, if 8 years of Donald Trump and Jacob Zuma doesn't convince statists that increasing the size of the government isn't a good thing, then no amount of reason I can provide will change that.
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One of these days you’re gonna come full circle on your own logic and decide that Trump is a socialist
 
Pegasus

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Does anybody know what happens to the Ukraine's prez if Trump goes down?

Surely he would also be guilty of something.
 
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