Denel prioritises Red Falcon helicopter and missiles for SA defense needs

ArmatageShanks

Honorary Master
Joined
Nov 3, 2013
Messages
14,070
Defense from whom exactly? Our tit government officials perhaps?

Right now, anyone, we have as near as makes no difference no defence or offence capability, leaving us a big shining target, especially for terrorists.
 

Fulcrum29

Honorary Master
Joined
Jun 25, 2010
Messages
45,097
Denel will need to seek equity partners elsewhere. We simply cannot sustain the SANDF without an economy.

Why are we in this position? Corruption.

“We are engaging with our shareholder, the public enterprises ministry, on the financial and strategic support required for the stabilization of Denel,” the company said. “We have requested funding from the Department of Defence for the maintenance of strategic and sovereign capabilities.”

To think that our country is currently sustained with loans. The tax payers alone cannot maintain everyone any more.
 

Blu82

Expert Member
Joined
Nov 15, 2005
Messages
2,220
WTF is a Red Falcon lmao.
We don't say Badger IFV.
We don't say Elephant Tank.
We don't say ZT3 Leopard ATGM.

It's the Rooivalk.
It's the Ratel IFV.
It's the Olifant Tank.
It's the ZT3 Ingwe ATGM.
One minor error here. The Badger and Ratel are separate vehicles with the Badger earmarked as the Ratel's replacement.
 

Vorastra

Executive Member
Joined
Jan 13, 2013
Messages
7,526
One minor error here. The Badger and Ratel are separate vehicles with the Badger earmarked as the Ratel's replacement.
There is no error. Ratel also means Badger. You're making my point for me.

I'm not talking about the new planned IFV, with an English name, that'll never replace the Ratel.

On that note, remember when the TTD was meant to replace the Olifant. That was definitely going to happen. :rolleyes:
 

Blu82

Expert Member
Joined
Nov 15, 2005
Messages
2,220
There is no error. Ratel also means Badger. You're making my point for me.

I'm not talking about the new planned IFV, with an English name, that'll never replace the Ratel.

On that note, remember when the TTD was meant to replace the Olifant. That was definitely going to happen. :rolleyes:
From DENEL's perspective only one of these two vehicles matter

Here we have the Ratel
ratel.jpg
Here we have the Badger which DENEL is responsible for though if we will ever see them in numbers is another story.
badger.jpg
 

Quicks

Expert Member
Joined
May 29, 2017
Messages
1,829
I don't know if anyone will trust this company ever again after they leak classified information. The ANC really F-ups everything they put their hands on.
 

Shadowchaser1

Well-Known Member
Joined
Nov 14, 2018
Messages
461
Ex cit. The Rooi Valk is a 4th generation helicopter, outdated up to 20-30 years. Can only be upgraded so far. The rest of the world, not the countries (African continent), mostly your NATO countries are using 6th generation helicopters. The 7th generation helicopters are already in progress. I would like to know just for interest sake, which countries Denel is talking about and show any proof. This is highly unlikely, if they can't pay salaries, then they can't develop new weapons. Denel is flogging a dead horse.
 

Vorastra

Executive Member
Joined
Jan 13, 2013
Messages
7,526

Blu82

Expert Member
Joined
Nov 15, 2005
Messages
2,220
Not so sure about that since the new helicopter design Sikorsky and Boeing are proposing for Black Hawk and Apache replacements is a dual rotor with push prop design.
 

Fulcrum29

Honorary Master
Joined
Jun 25, 2010
Messages
45,097
Correct, the Rooivalk is unfortunately by now outdated.

This is the future:

View attachment 946252

/Cough

Like the Comanche :unsure:

No, the Rooivalk isn't outdated, not in design, and the systems and mounts can be updated. Foreign interested parties will in any case upgrade the Rooivalk with their own systems (incl. weapons systems).

The Indians recently ordered Apaches, all custom. The AH64 is still in by popular demand, and do you consider it as outdated?
 

CommonSense

Senior Member
Joined
Nov 20, 2012
Messages
680
/Cough

Like the Comanche :unsure:

No, the Rooivalk isn't outdated, not in design, and the systems and mounts can be updated. Foreign interested parties will in any case upgrade the Rooivalk with their own systems (incl. weapons systems).

The Indians recently ordered Apaches, all custom. The AH64 is still in by popular demand, and do you consider it as outdated?

No, not the Companche (appearances notwhithstanding) - that design is ancient and proved too advanced for its time. Technology has moved along since then though.

And not the Boeing FARA apparently too.

There are two contenders left: Sikorsky S-97 Raider and Bell 360 Invictus.



The Sikorsky was even flown by an army pilot recently, so it looks promising for Lockheed Martin there (again).



But on the subject of old Rooivalk. Honestly, you know there needs to be constant updates and development for any airframe to stay relevant. That costs hundres of millions of dollars and it need someone to believe that the design will pay off in order to invest that money. No one realistically sees Denel as being able to upgrade the Rooivalk to any modern standard. If it was done in 1994, then it stood a chance. Sadly, a good piece of tech was not developed and the market for that has moved on. There will be plenty of second-hand Apaches (D-model) available on the market soon as well.

Remember, it is not just the helicopter, you need to develop a whole eco-system for it too with integration with many weapons and systems to be effective, that takes time and money and equipment.

Even HAL in India is in the process of designing their own 10-12ton attack helicopter.
 

Fulcrum29

Honorary Master
Joined
Jun 25, 2010
Messages
45,097
No, not the Companche (appearances notwhithstanding) - that design is ancient and proved too advanced for its time. Technology has moved along since then though.

And not the Boeing FARA apparently too.

There are two contenders left: Sikorsky S-97 Raider and Bell 360 Invictus.



The Sikorsky was even flown by an army pilot recently, so it looks promising for Lockheed Martin there (again).



But on the subject of old Rooivalk. Honestly, you know there needs to be constant updates and development for any airframe to stay relevant. That costs hundres of millions of dollars and it need someone to believe that the design will pay off in order to invest that money. No one realistically sees Denel as being able to upgrade the Rooivalk to any modern standard. If it was done in 1994, then it stood a chance. Sadly, a good piece of tech was not developed and the market for that has moved on. There will be plenty of second-hand Apaches (D-model) available on the market soon as well.

Remember, it is not just the helicopter, you need to develop a whole eco-system for it too with integration with many weapons and systems to be effective, that takes time and money and equipment.

Even HAL in India is in the process of designing their own 10-12ton attack helicopter.

We can have a long discussion, but the Rooivalk Mk 2 is viable which is the export model. The current Mk1F have proven to be capable in its UN peacekeeping deployments and has been maintained since 2011. Yes, it is relevant.
 

lowriderza

Expert Member
Joined
May 23, 2019
Messages
1,779
At this stage they are keeping up appearances of a viable company. Behind the scenes they are broke.
 

Milano

Honorary Master
Joined
Feb 7, 2004
Messages
16,696
We can have a long discussion, but the Rooivalk Mk 2 is viable which is the export model. The current Mk1F have proven to be capable in its UN peacekeeping deployments and has been maintained since 2011. Yes, it is relevant.
What do the Rooivalk sales figures look like?
 

Fulcrum29

Honorary Master
Joined
Jun 25, 2010
Messages
45,097
What do the Rooivalk sales figures look like?

We cannot sell that which cannot be maintained. For us to sell the Rooivalk, it is more than selling hardware. It is a logistical set up, crew training, etc. Who would want this when Western supply and training is sustainable and Eastern goods are in the abundance?

Yes, the Rooivalk is a white elephant, but it isn't outdated as some here are making it out to be.
 
Top