Deputy finance minister warns of wage freeze, 'looming fiscal crisis'

Acid0

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When the economy is bad we as private sector dont get any increases.

Its about time the public sector feels the pain.
No more freaking 15% increases and yet here we private sector sits with our finger up our bum because our companies cant pay increases

Lastly the government must revise this handbook and half the spending that they are alowed to do on the luxery cars and houses.
 

thechamp

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When the economy is bad we as private sector dont get any increases.

Its about time the public sector feels the pain.
No more freaking 15% increases and yet here we private sector sits with our finger up our bum because our companies cant pay increases

Lastly the government must revise this handbook and half the spending that they are alowed to do on the luxery cars and houses.
Who ever got a 15% increase in the public sector? They are usually very modest increases below 10%.
 

Acid0

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Who ever got a 15% increase in the public sector? They are usually very modest increases below 10%.
They normally starts with the high number and end up inflation plus 3 after negotiations
 

Supervan II

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R1.2 bil a week X 52 weeks = R62.4 bil per year.



So basically we are borrowing money every week so that we can pay Eskoms debt? Is it only me, or does it seem that there doesn't need to be a financial crises?
Consolation: We don't borrow when we are on 3 weeks' leave: 1.2 x 49 = 58.8 ;)
 

konfab

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That's not necessarily true, or it depends what you mean by possibly tax?

An increase an austerity, combined with a decrease in something like fuel taxes could well see overall tax collection increase.
The correct way to view the total amount of taxation that a government does is by looking at its spending relative to the GDP. This is because government spending without direct taxation causes inflation, which is a tax paid by people who have the audacity of saving their money.

732839


The data isn't quite up to date but it pretty much shows that South Africa's spending is actually fairly high for a country where most of the people are living in poverty. We don't have massive middle classes like the US or Canada that can sustain the level of spending.

South Africa's spending should be 10% less in absolute terms to bring it in line with other developing countries like Mexico, Mauritius, Chile etc.

The fuel levy can be painlessly decreased by about R2/l by simply getting rid of the RAF and making third party insurance mandatory for all vehicles. The vast majority of cars on the road already have insurance, so most people are not going to get impacted.
 

Temujin

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The correct way to view the total amount of taxation that a government does is by looking at its spending relative to the GDP. This is because government spending without direct taxation causes inflation, which is a tax paid by people who have the audacity of saving their money.

View attachment 732839


The data isn't quite up to date but it pretty much shows that South Africa's spending is actually fairly high for a country where most of the people are living in poverty. We don't have massive middle classes like the US or Canada that can sustain the level of spending.

South Africa's spending should be 10% less in absolute terms to bring it in line with other developing countries like Mexico, Mauritius, Chile etc.

The fuel levy can be painlessly decreased by about R2/l by simply getting rid of the RAF and making third party insurance mandatory for all vehicles. The vast majority of cars on the road already have insurance, so most people are not going to get impacted.
You'd think... but nope, its only about 30% iirc
 

MidnightWizard

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thats irrelevant to the point, the tax collection is still double what it used to be, by definition that can't be described as low
ECONOMICS 101
It may be double -- in numerical terms BUT it is halved in PURCHASING power !

WHAT is the REAL value of the currency -- as opposed to it's NOMINAL value
Rated against a basket of goods ( what a person takes home from the supermarket in a month )
 

saturnz

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ECONOMICS 101
It may be double -- in numerical terms BUT it is halved in PURCHASING power !

WHAT is the REAL value of the currency -- as opposed to it's NOMINAL value
Rated against a basket of goods ( what a person takes home from the supermarket in a month )
we are talking taxation, and the issue of inflation was already addressed
 

R13...

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The fuel levy can be painlessly decreased by about R2/l by simply getting rid of the RAF and making third party insurance mandatory for all vehicles. The vast majority of cars on the road already have insurance, so most people are not going to get impacted.
Agree on the fuel levy being replaced with mandatory third party insurance but your assertion that the vast majority of cars are insured doesn't sound right. I think most people are uninsured (actually a 2013 article says 65%), even those who should know better. I'm not sure why government isn't making third party cover mandatory, it'd take a burden off the few who must insure as when the pool is larger then premiums will drop for comprehensive cover.

 

MidnightWizard

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South Africa's spending should be 10% less in absolute terms to bring it in line with other developing countries like Mexico, Mauritius, Chile etc.
ALL very interestng

Is TAX the means whereby we -- citizens -- pay the Government to work
or
Is tax a means of -- WEALTH REDISTRIBUTION ?

Nevertheless, in most advanced countries, the following will be pretty generally applicable.

1. Abolition of property in land and application of all rents of land to public purposes.
2. A heavy progressive or graduated income tax.
3. Abolition of all rights of inheritance.
4. Confiscation of the property of all emigrants and rebels.
5. Centralisation of credit in the hands of the state, by means of a national bank with State capital and an exclusive monopoly.
6. Centralisation of the means of communication and transport in the hands of the State.
7. Extension of factories and instruments of production owned by the State; the bringing into cultivation of waste-lands, and the improvement of the soil generally in accordance with a common plan.
8. Equal liability of all to work. Establishment of industrial armies, especially for agriculture.
9. Combination of agriculture with manufacturing industries; gradual abolition of all the distinction between town and country by a more equable distribution of the populace over the country.
10. Free education for all children in public schools. Abolition of children’s factory labour in its present form. Combination of education with industrial production, &c, &c.


The Communist Manifesto

The Principles of Communism

In EITHER case the money we pay as taxation to THIS ANC / SACP government is ...

WASTED / STOLEN / FRITTERED AWAY / USED IN FRIVELOUS PURSUITS
 

MidnightWizard

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we are talking taxation, and the issue of inflation was already addressed
Inflation is EXACTLY the reason -- for the [numerical] increase in the tax figures

It would be most interesting for someone to plot a graph showing the price of a medium size sedan from say 1970 to the present.
or
A generalized basket of goods ( what a medium income family purchased as their "groceries" )

People / Citizens REALLY need to know how much has been STOLEN from them -- by the previous as well as the current regimes.

The exchange rate ( UK ? USA ) would also need to figure in that graph -- for a dose of REALITY !
 

saturnz

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Inflation is EXACTLY the reason -- for the [numerical] increase in the tax figures
uhmmm, no

the tax collection has more than doubled over the past 10 years, inflation has not resulted in the doubling of general prices

therefore you are wrong
 

MidnightWizard

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The correct way to view the total amount of taxation that a government does is by looking at its spending relative to the GDP. This is because government spending without direct taxation causes inflation, which is a tax paid by people who have the audacity of saving their money.
PS;
I suggest that the German high spending is as a result of the UNIFICATION ?
Interesting looking at the lowest spenders ...
 

MidnightWizard

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uhmmm, no

the tax collection has more than doubled over the past 10 years, inflation has not resulted in the doubling of general prices

therefore you are wrong
WHAT inflation are we talking about ?
According to WHOSE figures ?

WHO are the tax payers that have contributed to the increase ?

Workers at SOE's ? -- WHO are paid -- OUT OF THE FISCUS !

Please go and consult -- WHAT is the base year for South African CPI calculations?

Inflation vs Consumer Price Index – Do you know the difference?

Therefore -- YOU -- are ignorant
 

saturnz

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WHAT inflation are we talking about ?
According to WHOSE figures ?

WHO are the tax payers that have contributed to the increase ?

Workers at SOE's ? -- WHO are paid -- OUT OF THE FISCUS !

Please go and consult -- WHAT is the base year for South African CPI calculations?

Inflation vs Consumer Price Index – Do you know the difference?

Therefore -- YOU -- are ignorant
I already posted a link to a tax expert who also suggested there is nothing wrong with tax collection.

Provide citations for your statements, and keep it within context of tax collection.
 

surface

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uhmmm, no

the tax collection has more than doubled over the past 10 years, inflation has not resulted in the doubling of general prices

therefore you are wrong
Which items do you have in mind when you say general prices exactly? Some prices have definitely doubled or tripled. Electricity costs probably tripled in 10 years. I think bread & oil have more than doubled (although you get specials on oil now and then)

Here is article from 2018

p.s. unless you are saying inflation was not the cause of doubling price.
 

saturnz

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Which items do you have in mind when you say general prices exactly? Some prices have definitely doubled or tripled. Electricity costs probably tripled in 10 years. I think bread & oil have more than doubled (although you get specials on oil now and then)

Here is article from 2018
I'm not going down this deflection. The stats are there, if you disagree with then, create your own for public consumption.
 
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