Digital rand - CBDC for South Africa

Hamster

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Sure, so to be fully digital you just remove the paper. Some of us have been doing that for decades. The issue isn't lack of Blockchain.
Decades? Ah man, I'm so far behind the rest of you. Decades ago we were still using those Volkskasbank bag jobbies and prepaid Telkom cards.
 

saturnz

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these bankers can try whatever financial engineering they want, the end product will still not meet the functions of money

and if it cannot perform the functions of money, then its not money, just another scam pretending to be money
 

krycor

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I think people need to ease off the conspiracy theories..
- devaluation etc.. uh they can do it already, physical or not.
- auditibility or traceability.. they have this already with bank electronic form of cash.. real cash no, limited to when serials come gets checked at banks etc?

The real benefit is that last part and I suspect it will come with lowering the permissible cash holding and perhaps lessening of max note value to R100 if not R50.

Wrt what’s the whole point..
- cheaper cost of banking.. from merchant to consumer, electronic P2P electronic cash that’s offline capable.
- beholden to SARB directly.. not a bank or 3rd party.
- fraud & corruption.. good luck, SARB and literally let it happen, see where the money goes and then nuke it from existence while coming to fetch individuals.
- trade.. yes trade. When doing trade you no longer have to go Eg Yaun to Usd to Rand ? Or Rand to Dollar to Pound to buy something (we not talking people, we talking global trade). This seems very arbitrary to most but does mean there is less fees and cost in transactions as the number banks and currency involved in transactions is reduced drastically.

Now all of that still seems like a lot of noise for nothing some would say but here is the thing.. that last one is why the dollar as a reserve, the debt and the inflation of theirs is a huge problem. China is pushing this along as they know the implications and have already integrated with SWIFT. So the petro dollars will be a thing of the past too.. and everyone older than 4 decades knows how the Americans fret when that is threatened.. well now it’s all trade and all countries.
 

markings

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I see no point or value in this, as already mentioned our money is somewhat digital. I can go months without having physical cash so not sure what this solves for. If this was a digital currency that could potentially be used across Africa, now that would really be game changing.
China's 3 principles for their digital currency
1) It must be usable like cash, e.g. no fees when transacting, direct buyer to seller transaction
2) It must afford some anonymity. I think that would come out of point 1)
3) It must work anywhere, even the deepest rural area, without an internet connection.

It works with smart phones, but one can also buy preloaded cards for those who do not have a phone.
 

hj007

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China's 3 principles for their digital currency
1) It must be usable like cash, e.g. no fees when transacting, direct buyer to seller transaction
2) It must afford some anonymity. I think that would come out of point 1)
3) It must work anywhere, even the deepest rural area, without an internet connection.

It works with smart phones, but one can also buy preloaded cards for those who do not have a phone.
How do you transfer between 2 people with the cards / no phones?
 

Little Mac

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China's digital currency is beautiful. The way it works means that people do not need any banking services anymore.
And that their future is doomed if you don't toe the party line... you have no hope of survival. It's just another way they can turn the taps off for their political dissidents. What a tool they have. They can virtually sentence you to death with the flip of a virtual switch.
 
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markings

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And that their future is doomed if you don't toe the part line... you have no hope of survival. It's just another way they can turn the taps off for their political dissidents. What a tool they have. They can virtually sentence you to death with the flip of a virtual switch.
How when one doesn't need an internet connection? When exchanges are phone to phone, no bank involved?
 

Little Mac

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How when one doesn't need an internet connection? When exchanges are phone to phone, no bank involved?
You need a technical breakdown? And don't say you don't need an internet connection, you can call the network what you like.
 

markings

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How do you transfer between 2 people with the cards / no phones?
I don't know in detail but they seem to have it worked out. NFC, BT maybe? And if both only have a card I assume they would need some device to facilitate. I posted a link to video some time ago in one of the digital currency threads. Here it is again
 

w1z4rd

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Anyone using xZar or ZARP?
xzar is a scam token, its not backed up by anything. They made 10 billion of those. Show me the money, prove that you have the cash to back up the token.
 

Johnatan56

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that last one is why the dollar as a reserve, the debt and the inflation of theirs is a huge problem.
No it isn't.

1627818085513.png
[...]

Public Debt​

The public holds over $21 trillion, or almost 78%, of the national debt.1 Foreign governments hold about a third of the public debt, while the rest is owned by U.S. banks and investors, the Federal Reserve, state and local governments, mutual funds, pensions funds, insurance companies, and savings bonds.


The Treasury breaks down who holds how much of the public debt in the monthly Treasury Bulletin. Here are highlights from the March 2021 report (September 2020 data unless indicated otherwise):

  • Foreign: $7.07 trillion (in September 2020, Japan owned $1.28 trillion and China owned $1.06 trillion of U.S. debt, which is more than a third of foreign holdings)3
    Major Foreign Holders of Treasury Securities
  • Federal Reserve and government: $10.81 trillion (December 2020)
  • Mutual funds: $3.5 trillion
  • State and local governments, including their pension funds: $1.09 trillion
  • Private pension funds: $784 billion
  • Insurance companies: $253 billion
  • U.S. savings bonds: $147 billion (December 2020)
  • Other holders, including individuals, government-sponsored enterprises, brokers and dealers, banks, bank personal trusts and estates, corporate and non-corporate businesses, and other investors: $2.28 trillion4

This debt is not only in Treasury bills, notes, and bonds but also in Treasury Inflation Protected Securities and special state and local government series securities.


If you add the debt held by Social Security and all the retirement and pension funds, almost half of the U.S. Treasury debt is held in trust for your retirement. If the United States defaults on its debt, foreign investors would be angry, but current and future retirees would be hurt the most.
Their debt isn't really an issue, a lot of it is held by their own people/companies/pensions, etc., which means retirements are more secure, and if the US wanted to reduce debt they could do it easily enough by raising taxes.
What you need to look at is cost of servicing that debt, you're talking about ~$500-600bn a year: https://www.treasurydirect.gov/govt/reports/ir/ir_expense.htm
Considering they have over $3.4tn in revenue a year, it's not really an issue (remember that a lot of that debt repayment is to its own departments, pension funds, banks, etc.).
 

Little Mac

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How when one doesn't need an internet connection? When exchanges are phone to phone, no bank involved?
BTW the central bank issues the digital currency and controls the network. It's not an open Blockchain.
 

Swa

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BTW the central bank issues the digital currency and controls the network. It's not an open Blockchain but permissioned.
This is what people don't understand. It's everything bad from "digital" currency but nothing good.
 
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