Disclosing mental health to employer

[|tera|]

Where's the disdain - care to point it out. I considered other people, who those who are suicidal may harm in a setting they cannot escape from.

If the company wants to keep you great, but if they don't I don't see a problem with it.

Let your conscience answer your questions. I'm not here to ease it for you.

 

[ISP cash cow]

So you don't see it as a possible scenario that someone that already tried to commit suicide might kill themselves if a co-worker says their work sucks?

I must have a better imagination.

Ok now I see the issue, you not using logical thought but imagination to post.. got it

 

[Brenden_E]

Ok now I see the issue, you not using logical thought but imagination to post.. got it

So you don't see it as a possible scenario that someone that already tried to commit suicide might kill themselves if a co-worker says their work sucks?

That was my position that you so elegantly sidestepped. You are welcome to cite research and logic to refute it and I will gladly concede if you do, learning something in the process.

 

[Brenden_E]

And to clarify since many on here are binary thinkers; I don't for a second believe mental health is not an issue and people shouldn't receive support.

I do however question whether it's an employer's and co-workers' responsibility to rehabilitate such a person. If they decide to do so, I would have nothing but respect for that decision. But if they do not wish to, I also believe they should have the choice to let that person go.

 

[Alton Turner Blackwood]

There are times to respond and times not to of course, and I would assume that more often than not in a personal face to face setting you err on the side of caution.

But in general, at least on this forum (and this is constructive criticism only) you do sometimes get triggered very quickly and it plays into other peoples hands in a debate/discussion. So it would be something I would honestly suggest you work on within yourself purely for your own benefit really.

I know him quite a bit better than I think you do and - I hope you don't take this the wrong way - but siding with @Brenden_E's narcissistic tendencies, as it were, and then being apologetic about it based on @|tera|'s content of prior posts, is cowardice.

I've got no horse in this race, but I offered my own experience in an effort to support OP. You, on the other hand, went on the offensive, when you had no reason to. So "times to respond and times not to" is a bit of an own goal.

We all deal with bullschit daily, some of which some people can handle, but not everybody can. There are people who have cognitively lower tolerance to deal with negativity; or negatively influencing situations. And that doesn't make them bad people, it just means they would rather walk away, whether physically or mentally.

 

[ISP cash cow]

So you don't see it as a possible scenario that someone that already tried to commit suicide might kill themselves if a co-worker says their work sucks?

That was my position that you so elegantly sidestepped. You are welcome to cite research and logic to refute it and I will gladly concede if you do, learning something in the process.

I didn't side step your comment, it does not seem relevant to the conversation and you have absolute no knowledge on the psychopathy of people to make any statements of what could or not could be "scenarios"

Your position is that you would fire the person based on the below

Is it illegal to fire someone for this?
If not I would probably fire you to for the sake of the other employees. Someone that tried to kill themselves is capable of literally anything. Who knows what happens if another employee rubs that person the wrong way what might go down.

Your premise here is that a person with suicidal tendencies could have the ability to harm or kill other employees, otherwise why else would you say "for the sake of the other employees"

you then swivel to

So you don't see it as a possible scenario that someone that already tried to commit suicide might kill themselves if a co-worker says their work sucks?

So now you trying to claim it is to protect the employee himself (pull the other one)

A person who is suicidal is generally not suicidal about one thing (such as a co worker telling him his work sucks), if a person tries to kill himself it is generally a psychological thought process over time and so he has been thinking about it and contemplating it for a period and not just over one incident such "as Karen telling me my works sucks". Hell the shops not having the right ham in the store could push the guy over the edge. we going to stop people going to the stores now.

People who have tried and failed to commit suicide can actually be a blessing because they can then get the treatment they required as they may not have known they had a mental issue previously and thought that "this is just normal" but they don't like this "normal"

The real concerns are the people who have narcissistic personality disorder and similar mental issues. They are the ones that will shoot up schools and office blocks because they didn't get their way. They also tend to want to hurt others before they will hurt themselves

Also I cannot understand your logic.. how I am supposed to cite research about something I am refuting (no evidence of). If there is no proof that a person who is suicidal "will kill himself over someone telling him his work is ****" then how am I supposed to submit it.

Maybe you should cite the evidence where suicidal people have killed themselves because someone told them their work was ****.

 

[Alton Turner Blackwood]

Those unable to contain their emotions to the point of actually trying to commit suicide don't need much prodding to go over the edge. You'd have to cite some peer-reviewed research to refute such.

Why??? You made that claim, the burden of proof is on you.

Are you being deliberately obtuse or are you trolling now?

 

[Brenden_E]

I didn't side step your comment, it does not seem relevant to the conversation and you have absolute no knowledge on the psychopathy of people to make any statements of what could or not could be "scenarios"

Your position is that you would fire the person based on the below


Your premise here is that a person with suicidal tendencies could have the ability to harm or kill other employees, otherwise why else would you say "for the sake of the other employees"

you then swivel to



So now you trying to claim it is to protect the employee himself (pull the other one)

A person who is suicidal is generally not suicidal about one thing (such as a co worker telling him his work sucks), if a person tries to kill himself it is generally a psychological thought process over time and so he has been thinking about it and contemplating it for a period and not just over one incident such "as Karen telling me my works sucks". Hell the shops not having the right ham in the store could push the guy over the edge. we going to stop people going to the stores now.

People who have tried and failed to commit suicide can actually be a blessing because they can then get the treatment they required as they may not have known they had a mental issue previously and thought that "this is just normal" but they don't like this "normal"

The real concerns are the people who have narcissistic personality disorder and similar mental issues. They are the ones that will shoot up schools and office blocks because they didn't get their way. They also tend to want to hurt others before they will hurt themselves

Also I cannot understand your logic.. how I am supposed to cite research about something I am refuting (no evidence of). If there is no proof that a person who is suicidal "will kill himself over someone telling him his work is ****" then how am I supposed to submit it.

Maybe you should cite the evidence where suicidal people have killed themselves because someone told them their work was ****.

There's overwhelming evidence that negative social feedback leads to depression and suicide - it's the primary attribute behind the mental health crisis driven by social media.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3477910/

A person being told their work is inadequate is an attack on their position in the social hierarchy; it means they do not deserve to be in that position, that they are a fraud. Unless they can prove otherwise, others are likely to adopt that opinion and have it solidified. One of the most potent catalysts for negative emotional proliferation is when an individual believes they have moved down on the social hierarchy. A person that is already suicidal being told their work sucks, being flooded with negative emotions, well you can see where this is going.

The lectures I've watched did not present this as a contentious issue. Feel free to post an opposing viewpoint.

 

[Brenden_E]

Why??? You made that claim, the burden of proof is on you.

Are you being deliberately obtuse or are you trolling now?

It's not a contentious subject in the psychology literature I've read, so I assumed you'd google and come to the same conclusion. And perhaps I incorrectly assumed that you have read any of the literature. My bad.

Posted an article in my follow-up.

 

[ToxicBunny]

I know him quite a bit better than I think you do and - I hope you don't take this the wrong way - but siding with @Brenden_E's narcissistic tendencies, as it were, and then being apologetic about it based on @|tera|'s content of prior posts, is cowardice.

I've got no horse in this race, but I offered my own experience in an effort to support OP. You, on the other hand, went on the offensive, when you had no reason to. So "times to respond and times not to" is a bit of an own goal.

We all deal with bullschit daily, some of which some people can handle, but not everybody can. There are people who have cognitively lower tolerance to deal with negativity; or negatively influencing situations. And that doesn't make them bad people, it just means they would rather walk away, whether physically or mentally.

I am not sure I sided with Brenden_E's tendencies anywhere, but hey if I did then it came out wrong or wasn't meant as a "side" with him at all....

And possibly my "times to respond and times not to" could be seen as an own goal in some respects possibly, but its just my experience that I'm putting out there.
I completely agree that we all deal with bullshyte daily, and some people are better at handling it than others, and for me its never a marker on them being bad people or not... but it can be something that some people can consciously work on to some level (I've had to make efforts in that area myself over time)

 

[|tera|]

Suicide 101:
You don't just get physically hurt if the attempt fails. You lose everything.
If the attempt is successful, then your family and friends are torn apart.
I lost a co-worker due to suicide and it broke me (about a year and a half ago).
I have also had 2 attempts again this year. OD.
Physically hurt myself and my mind took a few months to recover.

It's an illness, not a choice. If your brain says enough, then it's enough, nothing can change it.
I'm worse off today, financially, socially and quality of life (where I reside etc.) than I was on the day of my first OD.
Rehab was supposed to shock me into not doing it again, using fear as a weapon that would cause me not to be in that environment again.

Everything is worse now than it was. Did I know that would be the result? Nope.
If it was a simple remark that set me off (my work sucks, which it doesn't) then I would be a fool to commit suicide over it.
There's a thousand reasons why.

The advice I give in this thread is not to cause conflict, but to help. To help someone see that honesty goes a long way.
Being reliable and honest goes hand in hand. If you aren't honest and truthful, you're not reliable.

I've been diagnosed since 2004. This isn't something new to me.
Best bet is to learn to cope. Even if everything seems hopeless.

 

[WhiteRaven]

In the past I disclosed to an employer who I really trusted that I had been diagnosed with a mental health condition.
About two months later I was retrenched "for a different reason". I don't think this was coincidence but I could never prove it.

For the rest of career I refused to disclose anything but at the same time I was never asked so it all worked out.

This morning I received a notification that the company group life cover scheme requires me to complete a new underwriting consent form, medical report, etc. Part of this covers diagnosis for mental health.

I'm worried that in disclosing this to the group scheme will result in my employer finding out and then the stigma rears its ugly head again. The provider of the scheme already has my condition listed on PMB and chronic medication through their medical aid offering so not disclosing it on the forms is not an option. It will come back and bite me in the ass.

How do I even begin to approach this? I really don't want my employer to find out.

My understanding is that the Group Life Scheme would be a separate entity to the company you are working for and therefore should have some form of confidentiality clause. Your best bet would be to call the Group Life Scheme's call centre and ask about this and see if you can submit the documentation directly to them, so that your personal information is kept confidential and not be shared via HR.

 

[I.am.Sam]

too much stories to read

if an employee raises an issue to HR and the manager still doesn't take note and changes what can be done ?

A colleague just messaged me now asking me for other jobs after she didnt do too well and had a breakdown

 

[|tera|]

too much stories to read

if an employee raises an issue to HR and the manager still doesn't take note and changes what can be done ?

A colleague just messaged me now asking me for other jobs after she didnt do too well and had a breakdown

Please explain this confusionousless post...

 

[Nemesys]

So in theory, disclosing it to your life cover scheme should not be visible to your employer at all. That level of information share should not be in place.
But you say that the PMB and Chronic med stuff is already on your medical scheme so if they do have that level of information share, then your employer already knows about it and they haven't done anything negative to you about it so I wouldn't really be totally concerned.

The other question would be whether you think your current employer is the type to be vindictive and hold such a thing against you?

By law your medical scheme cannot share your medical conditions with anyone without your permission not even your spouce. We find it quite funny that my wifes chronic conditions and medication are blocked from my veiw on their portal yet I am allowed fetch her medication from the pharmacy.

 

[the eskimo]

From the insurance perspective, my advice* is to fill in the questionnaire as accurately as possible. Duty of disclosure and the principle of utmost good faith are paramount, even for group life.

If you are asked to send it back through HR, you are within your rights to ask to send it back directly.

Your group life cover is probably subject to a "Free Cover Limit" where no medical underwriting is required and no further requirements/loadings (apart from any standard age-related premium factors) will apply. If you are above the FCL, you would have to undergo further underwriting.

If it doesn't affect your job, you do not need to disclose any medical information to your employer. Of course, this is up to you. It is also ok to tell your employer you need time out of the office for medical care (without disclosing the practitioner and/or diagnosis) as long as you take leave/exeat/work the hours back (depending on your company). This can be for regular care (eg appointments with a therapist) or for once-off appointments.

What I will also advise* is if a episode/relapse will definitely affect your ability to do your job, is to tell your boss and HR. It isn't always possible to identify (by yourself) when a condition (mental or otherwise) might impact our work.

* Insert standard internet forum advice from a random person disclaimer

 

[maumau]

Why are you on medication without a clinical diagnosis?

After my dad died I went onto an SSRI and I've stayed on it.

 

[|tera|]

After my dad died I went onto an SSRI and I've stayed on it.

Meds aren't fun. Without them I'd be stuffed though.
I feel like a new person after I receive my fluoxetine injection each month.

 

[Alton Turner Blackwood]

@Ninja'd you're in this line of work so I'm surprised you haven't chipped in yet.

 

[I.am.Sam]

Please explain this confusionousless post...

whats confusionousless about this post