Discovery may lead to a review of the theory of evolution

RiaX

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Seti is an interesting project but the power of the arrays is simply too weak. Also the distances between objects is too great, even if they find a signal they will not be able to prove a thing because they wont be able to get there or look there. Its easy to see stars and galaxies, planets not so much.

Also consider what if advanced alien life is directly opposite to us in the milkyway ? then we will NEVER receive a signal because of the interference from the galatic core, and by the time any information reaches SETI it would rust.

The next ideal you got to consider is this:

The universe is a big place but is 14.7 billion years old enough to allow multiple evolutionary processes come into play? no one said evolution started at the same time everywhere. That said its possible that humanity could be the most advanced living race in the universe. Thus discovering aliens would be near impossible since they might be primative.

The next idea is what if we are the last in the evolutionary race? which would mean more advanced lifeforms could be extinct now. If super advance intelligent life exists then they wont know about us and we not be aware of them, because the universe is so massive we are always looking into the past. Humanity has only being sending signals for what just over a 100 years now? so any species outside 100 light years will not know mankind exists (the milkyway alone is approx 100 000 lightyears in diameter and the sun is a lame yellow dwarf star on the edge of the galaxy).

This concept is silly, sure our physics maybe wrong and light may not be the quickest way to travel across the universe, if its right then its possible this answer will not matter because everything is too far away. The next thing we got to consider is usually there arent multiple worlds in a system that are organic friendly. Its possible most living organics die before they evolve the scientific intellect to navigate the cosmos. Perhaps there will be synthetic lifeforms, super advanced beings that discarded their organic bodies in an attempt to achieve immortality.

Though this type of research does irritate me, I find it a waste of resources. Say you find an answer? then what you publish a paper going "there are aliens" or "there arent aliens" and that cost billions of dollars? Now im aware its a quest for knowledge but one should be realistic. This does not aid humanity in anyway. I believe the mathematics and statistics is sufficient in answering this question, until mankind learns to sail amoung the stars this is pointless research.

Finally what does SETI have to do with evolution? its function is to find life beyond earth. Life can take many forms depends what your idea of life is. Is a fully functional advanced artificial intelligence alive ? life can create life, that is not natural evolution. I would agree in intelligent design with that aspect, in terms of synthetic genetic engineering. Just like how lab mice are created, their genes are selected for research. Breeding and acts similar to this can also fall in this category. That is 'intelligent design', its proper scientific name is "Synthetic Evolution" but the word is taboo amoung ID and creationists they try to refute the concept so badly the word has been eliminated from their vocabulary. So SETI does not prove evolution if its successful, there are too many unknowns. SETI will only provide 1 of 2 answers, "IS there life beyond earth? 1)YES 2)Maybe havent found it yet."
 
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Techne

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ID attempts to analyse biological material in order to determine whether the source of some of it is some kind of intelligence or not.

SETI does the same. SETI analyses signals from outer space in order to determine whether the source of some of it is some kind of intelligence or not.

I think the main objection to ID as a science is that people claim you can't have evidence for intelligence without evidence of the intelligence itself. This objection can of course be applied to SETI.

If those same people are to be consistent then SETI cannot have evidence of intelligent signals if they do not have evidence of the intelligent source no matter how fancy the IDers or SETI claim their methods are or how "sciency" it sounds.

I don't know what the main difference between the two is that makes the one science and the other not. Perhaps someone can explain that.
 

unskinnybob

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ID attempts to analyse biological material in order to determine whether the source of some of it is some kind of intelligence or not.

SETI does the same. SETI analyses signals from outer space in order to determine whether the source of some of it is some kind of intelligence or not.

I think the main objection to ID as a science is that people claim you can't have evidence for intelligence without evidence of the intelligence itself. This objection can of course be applied to SETI.

If those same people are to be consistent then SETI cannot have evidence of intelligent signals if they do not have evidence of the intelligent source no matter how fancy the IDers or SETI claim their methods are or how "sciency" it sounds.

I don't know what the main difference between the two is that makes the one science and the other not. Perhaps someone can explain that.

:eek:

Wow.

So I'll agree that both have a similar purpose:
ID - to prove goddidit
SETI - to find other intelligent life in the universe

The difference: SETI isn't looking for God. No predefined agenda.
 

OrbitalDawn

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ID attempts to analyse biological material in order to determine whether the source of some of it is some kind of intelligence or not.

SETI does the same. SETI analyses signals from outer space in order to determine whether the source of some of it is some kind of intelligence or not.

I think the main objection to ID as a science is that people claim you can't have evidence for intelligence without evidence of the intelligence itself. This objection can of course be applied to SETI.

If those same people are to be consistent then SETI cannot have evidence of intelligent signals if they do not have evidence of the intelligent source no matter how fancy the IDers or SETI claim their methods are or how "sciency" it sounds.

I don't know what the main difference between the two is that makes the one science and the other not. Perhaps someone can explain that.

I think with SETI they're looking for patterns and occurrences that are familiar and potentially similar to things we can produce. Like finding something that we know wasn't made on earth, but that works in a relatively similar manner. Finding causal links would be tricky, I imagine.

With ID, they're looking for signs that the universe and everything in it was created by an intelligence. This puts it in a whole different league. With SETI, I suppose they're looking for entities or beings that are also operating under the natural laws and making use of their understanding of it, which we can then compare with our own understanding. ID goes far beyond that and tries to identify intelligence behind the 'creator' of the natural laws and the universe as a whole. Do we have a standard for 'creating universes'? that we can compare our own experiences to, so that we could compare?
 

cyghost

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I don't know what the main difference between the two is that makes the one science and the other not. Perhaps someone can explain that.
It is funny because this has been done for you by multiple users on this here InterWebs. It ain't gonna change suddenly like. The key diference is in the S of SETI...
 

Techne

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I think with SETI they're looking for patterns and occurrences that are familiar and potentially similar to things we can produce. Like finding something that we know wasn't made on earth, but that works in a relatively similar manner. Finding causal links would be tricky, I imagine.
IDers can also claim to look for patterns and occurrences similar to things we can produce. For example, we produce codes and machines. IDers may as well claim that they are searching for similar clues of things working in a similar manner.

:eek:

Wow.

So I'll agree that both have a similar purpose:
ID - to prove goddidit
SETI - to find other intelligent life in the universe

The difference: SETI isn't looking for God. No predefined agenda.
With ID, they're looking for signs that the universe and everything in it was created by an intelligence. This puts it in a whole different league. With SETI, I suppose they're looking for entities or beings that are also operating under the natural laws and making use of their understanding of it, which we can then compare with our own understanding. ID goes far beyond that and tries to identify intelligence behind the 'creator' of the natural laws and the universe as a whole. Do we have a standard for 'creating universes'? that we can compare our own experiences to, so that we could compare?
Well, we have already seen that ID can in principle NOT get you to theism. So at best it can only find something that operates under the natural laws (whatever that is supposed to mean) anyway.
 
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CoolBug

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Wow, this guy.

Science institutions and organisations like NASA are working with SETI Institute.
SETI is backed by many well known scientists, like Carl Sagan.

The majority of scientific organisations and educational institutions are not against SETI.

As far as I know SETI aren't making ridiculous claims, they're just trying their best to look for other life out there.
Get over yourself, SETI is nowhere near the level of trash that ID is.

Have you even read the ID wiki article where it basically says it's creationism and not science, have you seen how many institutions agree that ID is total kuk?

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intelligent_design
 

Techne

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Wow, this guy.

Science institutions and organisations like NASA are working with SETI Institute.
SETI is backed by many well known scientists, like Carl Sagan.

The majority of scientific organisations and educational institutions are not against SETI.

As far as I know SETI aren't making ridiculous claims, they're just trying their best to look for other life out there.
Get over yourself, SETI is nowhere near the level of trash that ID is.

Have you even read the ID wiki article where it basically says it's creationism and not science, have you seen how many institutions agree that ID is total kuk?

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intelligent_design
Sheesh, arguments from authority are pretty bad. Apart from this fallacy, could you or anyone point to a particular part of SETI's methodology that separates it from ID and makes SETI science and ID not?

Just asking for some logical consistency, not fallacious arguments.
 

Ekstasis

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Wow, this guy.

Science institutions and organisations like NASA are working with SETI Institute.
SETI is backed by many well known scientists, like Carl Sagan.

The majority of scientific organisations and educational institutions are not against SETI.

As far as I know SETI aren't making ridiculous claims, they're just trying their best to look for other life out there.
Get over yourself, SETI is nowhere near the level of trash that ID is.

Have you even read the ID wiki article where it basically says it's creationism and not science, have you seen how many institutions agree that ID is total kuk?

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intelligent_design
ITO Evolutionary science, wouldn't you say much of it is pseudoscience as well? Sorry for the slight deviation.
 

Techne

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ITO Evolutionary science, wouldn't you say much of it is pseudoscience as well? Sorry for the slight deviation.
Ekstasis, let's for arguments sake assume that evolutionary science is true. The following is true:
1) Life began to exist a few billion years ago.
2) All life on earth had a common ancestor.

How does that even begin to argue against design, creation, religion or theism?
 

CoolBug

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Sheesh, arguments from authority are pretty bad. Apart from this fallacy, could you or anyone point to a particular part of SETI's methodology that separates it from ID and makes SETI science and ID not?

Just asking for some logical consistency, not fallacious arguments.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Teach_the_Controversy

Does SETI teach a "controversy"?
Does SETI have a hidden agenda?
Did the courts rule that SETI is not science like they did ID?
 

Unhappy438

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Sheesh, arguments from authority are pretty bad. Apart from this fallacy, could you or anyone point to a particular part of SETI's methodology that separates it from ID and makes SETI science and ID not?

Just asking for some logical consistency, not fallacious arguments.

ID makes claims that's not backed by Science, Seti doesn't do this. Seti is an on going process to search for Alien life through the Scientific method. ID is an on going process to substantiate ones beliefs by any means possible.
 

CoolBug

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ITO Evolutionary science, wouldn't you say much of it is pseudoscience as well? Sorry for the slight deviation.

Sorry I'm not sure what you mean, ITO is an abbreviation?

If you saying SETI Institute is pseudoscience, I don't see how? For something to be pseudoscience it surely has to have claims that are scientifically unsupported
 

CoolBug

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ID makes claims that's not backed by Science, Seti doesn't do this. Seti is an on going process to search for Alien life through the Scientific method. ID is an on going process to substantiate ones beliefs by any means possible.

Exactly, they aren't looking at the stars and concluding that aliens did it.

Even though imho I do think we're too far away to make any sort of contact with our current technology.
 

Unhappy438

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Exactly, they aren't looking at the stars and concluding that aliens did it.

Even though imho I do think we're too far away to make any sort of contact with our current technology.

Technology maybe , distance im not so sure. We may very well be +-20 light years from another intelligent civilisation.
 

porchrat

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Huh, what is this "standard upon which they narrow results down" and "generic background noise" you are talking about for SETI and all the other "designeyness" detection endeavors? You are making stuff up, it's funny though.
As far as I was aware SETI was looking for electromagnetic communications. Based on our own communication formats they form standards for what they think communications from intelligent life could look like (things like repetition). Am I wrong? Heck if they aren't doing this they are a waste of money and might as well pack up and go home.

I don't remember ID ever having anything even approaching this because they don't really have any organisms we have built from scratch to use as a comparison. Every discipline you have mentioned before has some sort of comparison they make for the purposes of identification. I'm not aware of anything like that in ID.
 
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RiaX

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SETI scans for radiowaves. So yes the spectrum of light used for basic communication. As I stated earlier pointless effort, should rather be spending the money in NASA JPL division or give it to John Hopkins. Anyways anymore ranting about SETI would be trolling.

On a side note, Carl Sagan no longer alive.

EDIT**

Quick question what you think evolution revolves around?
 
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unskinnybob

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Well, we have already seen that ID can in principle NOT get you to theism. So at best it can only find something that operates under the natural laws (whatever that is supposed to mean) anyway.

The only sheep punting ID are creationists. Thus the agenda.

But I digress. It's a duck!
 
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